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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 November 2025
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Displaying 1445 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Tess White

Finally, I have noted that you have said that you want to provide leadership on the PSED and that you want to put your money where your mouth is, yet 80 per cent of respondents to the committee’s call for evidence said that public bodies do not understand and have not implemented the PSED properly. So, there is an issue with public bodies. During the previous evidence session, the EHRC said that there was an issue with the education sector and we have highlighted an issue with hospitals. I have also talked about big issues with Police Scotland.

In relation to the lack of implementation of the PSED, your leadership and putting your money where your mouth is, should you and/or the Scottish Government not suspend the pay rises of the leadership of those public sector bodies that are allegedly in breach of their duties? As a head of HR, if there were a specific issue in a part of an organisation, I could not take money off people, but I could and would suspend pay rises. If you have concerns and you are providing leadership, would it not be a practical thing to say, “Hang on a minute, let’s just suspend pay increases and review the implementation of PSED?”

12:45  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Tess White

What is your view on whether the Scottish Government should provide guidance on the Equality Act 2010 in addition to the EHRC?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Tess White

To follow up on that, you said that the numbers will be small. I will take women in hospital as an example, which is when they are their most vulnerable.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Tess White

The NHS Tayside single-sex accommodation policy allows trans-identified males to be placed on women’s wards, which effectively creates mixed-sex provision. That policy is based on the patient’s presentation—the way that they dress, their name and the pronouns that they currently use. You say that the Scottish Government is providing leadership on the PSED, which is good. Does the Scottish Government support the principle of allocating people to hospital wards based on their gender identity, or does it believe that wards should be single sex?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Tess White

So the data is important.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Tess White

You used the word “balance” at the start, so my final question on this is, do you agree that when doing impact assessments—which are very important for the PSED—not taking into account the perspective of those who are directly affected leads to resentment, conflict and legal challenge?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Tess White

Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Tess White

Will you be able to share a draft set of guidelines with the committee before they are published?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Tess White

My question is for John Wilkes. Earlier, you said that the Scottish Government might not have gone as far as it could have, and you specifically mentioned education. Is it your view that the Scottish Government, in addition to the EHRC, should be providing more and better guidance on the Equality Act 2010?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Tess White

There is a view that, basically, gender and gender identity have been privileged over sex.