Chamber and committees

The Deputy First Minister has said that the quality of provision differs across Scotland, so can she explain why she does not support the establishment of a national oversight board?

Yes, of course.

Does the Deputy First Minister think that having a target for deaf BSL teachers, as we do for GPs, would be the right thing to do?

I know that Dr Gosal met Chief Constable Jo Farrell this week and mentioned her bill, so it is now very firmly and squarely on the table as a result of that committee work. In addition to the issue that Carol Mochan raises, there was powerful input from a deaf advocate and survivor of domestic abuse, who told the committee that finding an interpreter is always at the front of a deaf woman’s mind. Can members imagine how bad it is, when someone has been abused and the police are coming to the door, to have to deal with those feelings of isolation, loneliness, threat and fear? That came across very powerfully. Even when there is an interpreter, many deaf survivors feel more comfortable speaking to someone whose first language is British Sign Language.

We have explored in the debate the lack of national oversight, which is an issue that needs to be addressed. I am grateful to the Deputy First Minister for taking my intervention on that and for saying that the issue is very much on the radar.

As Karen Adam said, the Scottish Government’s second national plan received mixed responses at committee. However, despite the Deputy First Minister’s insistence that the plan is clear and ambitious, in reality it faces a number of issues, particularly with its lack of focus and measurable goals. Alexander Stewart cited Deaflink, which said that there has been a

“dearth of appropriately trained Deaf BSL Tutors in Scotland”,

which is having a huge impact on the development of BSL users.

When my committee members asked me whether I was going to raise the issue with the Deputy First Minister, I said, “Too right I am.” I asked the DFM and her officials how many deaf BSL teachers there were and whether the position had improved from 10 or even five years ago, but neither the Deputy First Minister nor her officials had the figures to hand, which is a case in point. Data capture is important: we cannot manage what we do not measure. The committee asked the Scottish Government to consider a national BSL centre for excellence.

I realise the time, Presiding Officer, so I will come to my final comments.

Unless there is sufficient national oversight, issues around a shortage of qualified interpreters, deaf BSL teachers, limited resources and a lack of enforceability will not improve. In conclusion, although the 2015 act has brought significant benefits, the committee recognises that there are substantial challenges and that, as our convener said, substantial opportunities still remain.

I thank the committee clerks and support staff and the organisations and individuals who gave evidence to the committee. As our convener, Karen Adam, said, we all want to express our sincere gratitude to all those who gave evidence. It was very impactful for me to have Karen Adam as our convener, because she is a role model for the deaf community. She shared with the committee, including in private sessions, information that I did not know, such as about the word “CODA”. I watched the film “CODA”, which was very impactful. The inquiry raised my interest and understanding of the importance of BSL, so I would like to thank our convener. Her personal life experience made the whole committee experience enriching.

As Martin Whitfield said, it is really important that we have a Parliament that is accessible to everyone, so I am delighted to see people in the gallery who had an important input to our committee. The evidence was powerful and impactful, and it resonated deeply. I also thank the Deputy First Minister, who cares deeply about this subject and the importance of language to communicating, to being understood and to reducing the sense of isolation.

Each MSP who has spoken today recognises that some progress has been made in Scotland. I share the Deputy First Minister’s aspiration. I think that she said that Scotland has been a leader. I would say that Scotland definitely will be a leader if all the committee’s recommendations are implemented.

I would like to come back on that. It was very interesting to hear the Deputy First Minister share with the committee that Scotland was the world leader for the deaf community centuries ago but it lost its way. I was looking at Mark Griffin’s evidence from when he first introduced the bill, and he compared Scotland with Finland to show how Scotland had fallen behind Finland on the number of teachers and tutors for the deaf community.

I hope that the committee report and the way in which the Deputy First Minister has engaged with the issue ensures that that work continues. She said that it is really for the next session of Parliament, too, so I hope that, in her handover, she makes sure that it does.

One issue that has been identified in the debate by several members—Marie McNair raised it very powerfully—is the issue of access to the legal system for deaf women. I thought that women who are deaf were twice as likely to experience domestic abuse, but Marie McNair said that they are two to three times more likely, which is even more alarming.

Dr Pam Gosal highlighted the issue of deaf survivors of domestic abuse, and she cited the evidence from committee that deaf women often assume that domestic abuse is normal behaviour, which is absolutely shocking. When we heard that powerful evidence at committee, we were all taken aback. That issue has not yet been mentioned in any of the speeches in the debate. The national plan has also been silent on the issue. I hope that Government officials will take that away from the debate and that, under the leadership of the Deputy First Minister, we have it in the plan moving forward.

It was harrowing to hear what Dr Gosal said at committee about meeting a survivor who had slurred speech while putting together her Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill. Dr Gosal shared with us today that, when the police arrived at the survivor’s home, the abuser told authorities that she was drunk, so she was not taken seriously. That is absolutely horrific. When we heard that in committee, it was almost unbelievable. The more we hear about women who experience domestic abuse and the fabric of lies that the domestic abuser makes and shares with the police, the more shocking it is.

My question relates to an issue that cannot be blamed on the super-flu.

Aberdeen’s new maternity hospital is facing further delays, more than a decade after it was first given the go-ahead. The Baird family hospital was originally planned to open in 2020, but more setbacks have meant that it might not be finished until 2027 at the earliest—that is seven years late. Millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money has been spent on rectifying design flaws. Local women are paying the price for that incompetence, while staff are struggling to cope with rising waiting times for maternity services, gynaecology, breast screening and breast surgery. First Minister, will you engage with NHS Grampian and visit the site to see for yourself the problems that are causing the delays?

Recently released data shows that United Kingdom exports have grown by 4.6 per cent while Scotland’s have fallen by 7 per cent. Since 2018, Scotland’s international exports have fallen by 4 per cent in real terms, and instead of rising to 25 per cent—the target that is set out in “A Trading Nation”—they now sit at just 20 per cent. In light of those outcomes, will the minister admit that the Scottish National Party Government is failing on trade and failing businesses that export?

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app would not work. I would have voted yes.

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the impact of its export growth strategy, “A Trading Nation”, including what metrics it has used to assess this. (S6O-05262)