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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 2 January 2026
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Displaying 1795 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Your comment about who owns the relationships is interesting, because the question is: how do we foster good relationships? How do we act and treat each other with compassion, if we are not controlling the spaces? If there is more that you can provide on that after today, I will be interested to read it. Thank you for the offer.

Nicky, you talked earlier about the challenges that Police Scotland has faced and the recognition of institutional racism by two chief constables. How does Police Scotland foster good relations, given that charge, which has been accepted by the institution that is Police Scotland?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Creating the spaces for those conversations to happen is important, but it can be challenging to do that when you are dealing with two opposing groups who are potentially in conflict. Do you see public bodies as having an awareness of their duty to consider fostering good relations, or do you think that that is actually a kind of a sideline that is forgotten about and not really spoken about because there are no clear metrics and data around it? Should this committee or the Scottish Government work on that a bit more?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you; that is helpful.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

It is interesting that one of your examples is work with Gypsy Traveller communities. In the work that you have done with those communities, other service providers or other communities, did you get the sense that people understood that that work was happening under the banner of fostering good relations, or did they think that it was happening because it was the right thing to do?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is an interesting approach. In those initial discussions, did any surprising potential touch points—“conflicts” is not the right word—emerge, not necessarily between communities but between public agencies that might be interacting with and supporting communities? Will the questions that you ask in your questionnaire unpick some of that? For a range of reasons, certain communities might not want to approach certain public agencies for support or services. I see addressing that as being embedded and bound up in the fostering good relations element of PSED. Do you think that you will tease some of that out?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

To pick up on your last point, if we had national outcomes, would they help different agencies to work together better?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you—that is really helpful.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

that is really helpful, Nareen—thank you.

Alyia, I saw you nodding as Nareen Turnbull was speaking. Do you want to come in on this point, too?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

You have spoken about dealing with the disconnect. In your experience, if there is good work happening in your local authority, and if there are different projects that are tackling inequalities, what are the barriers to using the duty as a tool to address inequality and actually change things for people, so that it is not just about the process or collecting the data, but is about making individuals’ lives and communities’ lives better?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks, Alyia.

Martin, I come to you with the same initial question. If we are using the PSED, which is a measure that is supposed to help us target resources and work, why are inequalities still widening?