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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 31 December 2025
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Displaying 1795 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, and thank you for joining us.

Before I come to my questions, I declare an interest, as, six or seven years ago, I worked for a vision impairment charity that did quite a lot of work across the sensory impairment landscape, including with deaf charities.

I am interested in views on the second national BSL plan, and I will come to Avril Hepner first. We have heard mixed views on that plan. It recognises some of the key issues for BSL users, but there are concerns that it lacks focus and does not have clear, measurable goals or specific outcomes—you have touched on some of that already—and that timelines and accountability are not always clear. There is also criticism that it was watered down from earlier drafts. My question is an open one. What are your views on that second plan, and how have you been involved in its development?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

I put the same questions to Hannah Tweed around views on the second plan, the issues around the lack of measurement and, in essence, the watering down that we have heard about from Avril Hepner. The second plan is smaller in scope and size than the first plan. What are the consequences of that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

No—that response is very helpful. One of our challenges is the disconnect, almost, between good ideas happening but the consequences not necessarily being that meaningful, so your response is helpful to hear.

Alana Harper, I put the same kick-off questions to you. What are your views of the second plan? Where is it good and where are there gaps or issues? What about that point about it having been watered down—not only including fewer recommendations and things to do but being watered down?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you. Alana, do you want to come back in?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Does Lucy Clark want to say anything about the second plan?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Those specific points are helpful, as we will have to make recommendations to the Government after this inquiry.

I am curious about your response to a question that is similar to one that I asked Jemina Napier. Your focus, clearly, is on education and the full suite of concerns around that. What else needs to work for your strategic priorities through the plan to be realised?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

That was helpful—thank you. This is my final question. Off the back of some of the discussions that we had with the previous panel, there is a sense that having a second version of the national advisory group—NAG mark 2—would help to drive forward the national plan. That might help with the development of some of the issues that you have highlighted should be implemented now rather than waiting until the third plan. I wondered whether any of you had any views on that as a way of driving development of the national plan. Jemina Napier, do you want to come in first?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you. Rachel O’Neill, do you want to come in?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

My final question for you, Avril, is about the NAG. Would it be feasible for that to help to support the second plan as it goes through? Could we establish NAG part 2 now and have it make robust and important interventions to the second plan?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Maggie Chapman

Does the second plan even attempt to address those things or is it largely silent on them?