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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 December 2025
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Displaying 1795 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks to you both.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. We heard in the earlier sessions this morning about some of the challenges that schools might face in facilitating such discussions. For example, anxiety may be expressed by both parents and children, or by either parents or children, in different situations. They may be anxious about even raising the issue, because they do not want to be stigmatised and show themselves to be different in some way or another.

We heard earlier about some good examples of where such conversations are handled very sensitively and cleverly in some respects. How do we ensure that there is no stigmatisation and no risk of othering? There is a risk that the issue may not be raised in a conversation at all, because children do not want to annoy their parents, and parents do not want to shine the spotlight on the child as “other”.

Do you have any further thoughts on that? What you have said is fine—I just wondered whether you wanted to add anything else.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. There is frustration about the lack of joining those things up in that way.

Allan Faulds, you talked about the tensions between revenue generation, resource generation and allocation but also about some of the priorities that the ALLIANCE would have in health and social care. Over the course of this parliamentary session, have you seen a shift in priorities in relation to how we fund, resource and determine priorities for services and outcomes?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks very much, folks.

Have there been any policy priorities that you would have expected to see some progress on? Even if it is only narrative progress, are there policy changes that you would have wanted to see that you have not seen over the three or four-year conversation about human rights budgeting?

09:30  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, everyone. I am sorry that I cannot join you in person, but greetings from sunny Dundee.

Angela O’Hagan, you talked about the gap between narrative and practice and about the lack of fluency. One of the reasons why the committee started this process was to try to identify how we could close those gaps. What is your analysis or understanding of why there are still those gaps and the lack of fluency that you described?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Sorry—I muted myself to cough and then realised that I could not unmute myself.

I will leave it there, convener. I am happy to pass over to others, and I will come in again if something else sparks a question.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

We have heard about the tools that are available to you and your colleagues throughout the different levels of local and central Government. The national outcomes are one of those key tools. However, the national outcomes and national performance framework do not always match up. We cannot always follow the thread through from the NPF, budgets or the programme for government to the delivery of outcomes. Will you, minister or cabinet secretary, say more about how the Government is trying to follow those things through more concretely? What is your assessment of the delay in refreshing some of the national outcomes?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you very much.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

I hear that frustration—it is expressed by lots of people across the social care sector, from service users to providers. Have other panel members seen similar frustration? The priorities to deliver our human rights outcomes are still there, but, given the shift in that piece of legislation and the loss of the human rights bill, do you think that the Government actually has the understanding, as well as the capacity and narrative that Angela O’Hagan spoke about, to connect those aspirations to delivery? Are we missing something?

Allan Faulds spoke about the territorial scrap between national and local government. I get the feeling that we know what we want to do but we just do not know how to do it, and other things get in the way. We focus on the territorial scrap because the other question is too hard to answer. Do you get a sense of that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning. Thank you for joining us.

My questions follow on from Karen Adam’s questions about understanding progress and how the Government is approaching areas where there has not been progress. An area that has come up in our discussions with stakeholders this morning, and previously, is the implementation gap between the positive narrative and vision that we have in social care and the lack of delivery on those. The specific example that we heard earlier from the ALLIANCE was that the legislation that was initially proposed to transform social care and to embed human rights in every element of its provision became the subject of a scrap about territory and powers between the Scottish Government and COSLA. How is the Scottish Government working on navigating those issues, where we have other structural tensions that impede the delivery of a powerful and admirable narrative about the drive for the delivery of human rights and equality for all in Scotland?