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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 October 2025
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Displaying 1848 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Douglas Lumsden

We will agree that it is clear from what the Climate Change Committee has said that we need to get electricity prices down.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Douglas Lumsden

I will be brief, too. My questions are on engineered removals. How confident is the Government that it can deliver technologies such as direct air carbon capture and storage? Do we need a plan B if they do not work as we want them to?

12:00  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Douglas Lumsden

I want us to get to net zero, but it needs to be done in an affordable way. As things stand, I do not know what the impact will be on our households of the regulations that are coming through. It seems as though we are writing a blank cheque with no idea of the costs to Government, families or businesses. I welcome the fact that there will be costs in the climate change plan, and I hope that, when I see those costs, I will be able to support the budgets. However, at this time, there are too many unknowns, and I do not feel that we should be asked to approve the regulations without knowing those costs.

There is a risk of huge inequalities in relation to things such as electric vehicles, which we have spoken about. If you are fortunate enough to have a driveway where you can charge your car, you can pay 7p per kilowatt hour, but if you do not have a driveway, you have to use a public charger and will probably pay seven times that—perhaps 55p per kilowatt hour, or up to 90p per kilowatt hour if you are at a service station. That is a real risk.

The Climate Change Committee says no to electricity generation from gas, but the cabinet secretary cannot tell us whether she agrees with that at present, so we do not know whether that will be part of the future.

On the cost of electricity, I agree that it is too expensive, and that is often blamed on the gas price. As I mentioned last week, if I look at my utilities bill, I see that electricity is four times more expensive than gas. I hear that it is pegged to gas prices, but when we have to pay more or when the wholesale price goes up, where does that money go? Does it go to the wind farms and increased costs? I am not clear on that.

We have heard things from the Westminster Government about the £300 that we are meant to be getting off our electricity bills, but there is no sign of that happening any time soon. The situation with bills is complex. It is not only the wholesale costs that make up our electricity bills; we are also paying for balancing costs, CFD subsidies, renewable obligation certificate subsidies, grid upgrades and the social tariffs.

I also have a concern about the impact on communities. Without a plan or an energy strategy, the impact on our communities is unknown. I would welcome the plan. I know that it is coming at the end of October or early November but, as it stands, it is difficult to approve the regulations without seeing more detail.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Douglas Lumsden

Will Michael Matheson take an intervention?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Douglas Lumsden

I will go back to the issue of electricity prices, which we touched on earlier, because it is so important.

Electrification is key to meeting our future targets. James Richardson, you said that electricity must be more affordable. How confident are you that electricity prices will start coming down in the future and what factors will mean that those prices do come down?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Douglas Lumsden

I need to pick up on a couple of those points. You said that market distortion—I think that was how you described it—is making electricity more expensive. What are the factors that make it more expensive? Are there levies or other things in people’s bills that make the cost higher than how much it actually costs to make that energy? What are those things?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Douglas Lumsden

I guess that it is net zero, not absolute zero.

I am just trying to understand what percentage we are talking about. Is it 1 per cent? Is it 5 per cent? What is the scale of our emissions that that project would remove?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Douglas Lumsden

So, is it correct to say that, whether Acorn goes ahead or not will be irrelevant to meeting our targets over the next two budgets?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Douglas Lumsden

The Acorn project would not account for that 10 per cent. I am just trying to understand how big an impact not having Acorn would make. I do not want to be in a situation in which our Governments in Holyrood and in Westminster play a blame game about why we have not reached our targets. I can imagine that some people will say that that is because we have not made progress on the Acorn project. I am trying to understand whether we can blame that for not meeting our targets, which is why I am trying to understand how much carbon Acorn would remove.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Douglas Lumsden

In that list of levies, there were contracts for difference, renewables obligation certificates, network costs and balancing—all those things have to be factored in and they make our electricity bills more expensive. I am trying to think about how, in the future, that effect would disappear.