The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 3262 contributions
Meeting of the Parliament
Meeting date: 22 November 2022
Douglas Lumsden
Will the member take an intervention?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2022
Douglas Lumsden
Good morning, minister. I will continue with questions on the process that Daniel Johnson talked about.
In our evidence sessions during the past few weeks, SOLACE, COSLA, CIPFA, the NHS, the Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland and trade unions have all condemned the approach that has been taken. It sounds like the process has been rushed in this way because there was a commitment to introduce a bill in the first year of this session of Parliament. Is that correct?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2022
Douglas Lumsden
Just now, however, we are writing a blank cheque, because we do not know what is coming further down the line.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2022
Douglas Lumsden
None of those groups came to us and said that there should be no change at all. I cannot remember that being said at all. They all said that they accepted change; however, they were protesting against the fact that the bill that has been brought forward has no detail for them to get behind—or not get behind.
Unite the union said:
“The Scottish Government could not have drafted a more incomprehensible, incoherent and dreadful Bill. The plans to transfer services, people and property from local authorities to the Scottish Government are a recipe for disaster and represent an all-out assault on local democracy.”
Do you not accept that the lack of detail is causing those concerns for many organisations across Scotland?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2022
Douglas Lumsden
Do you not admit that the process that you have followed has caused all that uncertainty? If you had done it the other way round and had the co-design first and then the bill, there would be less uncertainty for groups such as Unite the union.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2022
Douglas Lumsden
I will move on to my next point. We mentioned standing orders earlier. According to rule 9.3 of the Parliament’s standing orders, a financial memorandum should set out the
“best estimates of the costs, savings, and changes to revenues to which the provisions of the Bill would give rise”.
We heard earlier that this financial memorandum seems to have more financial holes than a sieve. Is there a possibility that you are breaking the Parliament’s own rules here?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2022
Douglas Lumsden
Why is there not? It is known that there will need to be an IT system to support this. You said that you did not want to pluck figures out of the air for an IT system, but figures have been plucked out of the air for every other aspect of the bill. Why could there not have been a best estimate for an IT system?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2022
Douglas Lumsden
There will be IT costs relating to this bill; surely there should have been some provision for those costs in the financial memorandum.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2022
Douglas Lumsden
They have the statutory duty today, but they might not have it next year or the year after. They might be burdened by a capital cost for years to come, because they do not know what will happen.
I will move on to my next question. You mentioned COSLA’s figures—I think that COSLA has estimated a cost of £1.5 billion—and said that you do not agree with them.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 8 November 2022
Douglas Lumsden
Would you expect to see that soon, minister?