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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 September 2025
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Displaying 1812 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

David Page’s point that the whole point of reform is to reduce cost and duplication is key. The organisations around the table probably all have a human resources director, a finance director and an IT director, so the key question is: would you reduce your head count and voluntarily put people into a central pool or would that have to be mandated? I still do not know what the answer is, from listening to everyone today.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Do you see that as being a central pool of people that the Government would use to put out to bodies to see how they could change or reform their services?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 23 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Why do you think we do not do that now? Is it because there are too many political red lines that people will not go near? I am thinking of things like tuition fees, which you mentioned earlier.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 23 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Why, do you think, did that happen? Was there more money in the system and people were not too protective of budgets? Was there more of an appetite to take some risks than there had been before?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 23 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Does Mr Clark have anything to add? I will ask one last thing, if that is okay, convener. We heard about a local governance review, but the Scottish Government seems to have gone quiet on that. It is meant to be coming back, but we have not seen it. I would have thought that that would be part of the key reforms.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 23 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

I will stick with Ms Payne for a moment. You mentioned that there should be localism, on which we have heard a couple of things. We were expecting some sort of blueprint for public sector reform to come from the former Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy. The former Deputy First Minister then said, “We will leave it to the organisations—to each local authority or whatever. We will give them five themes and they can go and do their own thing”. Which way will it work?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 23 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

The question is whether it is true reform or salami slicing for all the different organisations.

Does Professor Connolly have anything to add?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 23 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

From reading the submissions and from what I have heard today, I have picked up that there is no clarity, that the pace needs to increase, that there are no targets, that there is no evaluation, that there is no real focus on prevention and intervention, and that there is an implementation gap between policy and delivery. How can the Scottish Government get the reform agenda back on track? What you have said seems to be quite damning so far. Professor Connolly, will you go first?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 23 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Should that be part of the reform that we are discussing?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 23 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Ms Payne, do you want to add to that?