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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 May 2025
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Displaying 1489 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Michael Marra

I want to ask about cross-border placements, which the bill seeks to regulate. Do its provisions go far enough towards doing that? Will you outline the complexities that you currently experience in dealing with such placements?

Perhaps Meg Thomas could start.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Michael Marra

That was really useful. Do you want to come in, Chloe?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Michael Marra

Do we have sufficient surge capacity? There is a policy in place regarding the last bed, under which a place is reserved to deal with issues that colleagues have mentioned to do with the results in court or in the children’s hearings system on a particular day. Are we retaining that policy? Is it helpful?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Michael Marra

The Good Shepherd Centre said in evidence to the committee that, at points, the Scottish need for secure care has dropped dramatically

“in the face of English Authorities desperate to find a secure care placement which can meet the needs of their young person.”

However, it also said that Scotland has been turning to England “to ensure sustainability”. Should the committee be concerned about that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Michael Marra

Are there any other comments from the panellists?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Michael Marra

We had evidence on that point last week. One panel member said:

“By making it harder for local authorities to place children in Scotland, our hope would be that that would somewhat force the issue of providing more appropriate places in England.”—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 22 March 2023; c 46.]

In terms of the dynamic of the bill, do you see that change happening in England if we make it more difficult for such placements to happen in Scotland?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Michael Marra

In its written evidence, St Mary’s Kenmure refers to cross-border placements subsidising the bed rate for young people in Scotland by

“cross border authorities who are willing to pay more than the Scotland Excel rate”.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Michael Marra

It is projected that the bill will result in a potential increase in referrals into secure care. Do we have capacity in the secure care system to meet those referrals? I put that question to Kevin Northcott.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Michael Marra

But that is not ending cross-border placements, which was your original position.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Michael Marra

Earlier, I touched on a point about the financial sustainability of cross-border placements. The bill seeks to further regulate those placements. Do the provisions go far enough in terms of ensuring the welfare of those vulnerable children?