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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 21 December 2025
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Displaying 1960 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Michael Marra

In giving that quote earlier I was not being critical of the Criminal Justice Committee. We all recognise the scale of the legislative burden that it has before it at the moment. Similarly, for a committee that was scrutinising the performance of the patient rights commissioner, say, the budget for that is likely to be £2 million or a little bit less, whereas it might also have somebody in front of it from the national health service talking about spending of £22 billion. There is a question there about the level of function that a committee should give in proportion to the scale of expenditure from the public purse.

Some people would be asking the Finance and Public Administration Committee why we are so concerned about £18 million when we have a budget of £30 billion for the various parts of the public services that we should be scrutinising: £18 million is a small proportion of the overall budget.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Michael Marra

I will continue in the same vein for a short period, if that is okay. The idea of assessing the outcomes is important. Jackson Carlaw said that MSPs would not be able to describe the activities or outcomes of a commissioner. It seems, from the evidence that we gathered, that the commissioners themselves are not particularly able to describe the outcomes of what the commissioners do either, and neither are some of the advocates who are asking for new commissioners. It appears, from the work that we have done, that the relationship between outcomes and the commissioners is a slightly vexed one.

10:45  

On your earlier point about transparency, there is, in my view, no real transparent, vigorous holding to account of commissioners for outcomes, is there? You are telling us that when they come to the corporate body and ask for budget and you do not drill down into what they have done with the money that they have been given. Are you saying that that should happen in other committees, but it simply does not?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Michael Marra

That is certainly stood up by evidence that we have had from the Scottish Information Commissioner, who told us that he has to deal with complaints, and it depends on how many complaints he gets—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Michael Marra

The last area that I want to address is the relationship between the politics and the process in the Parliament. Listening to you talk this morning about what mechanisms might be put in place—and we are all keen to know—I reflect that we all arrive here with manifestos, as was highlighted by Mr Carlaw, some of which will say that we will have commissioners, because the people writing those manifestos will have listened to third sector organisations that have been campaigning for them. Would you, as the corporate body, consider writing to the party leaders to set out some of your concerns to them ahead of the manifesto process for 2026, and state to them the problems that are going to present in relation to manifestos if they are approached by bodies outwith the Parliament?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Michael Marra

My point does not apply only to 2022-23. We are talking about long-term plans. In essence, we are talking about landing a jumbo jet on a stamp, but the jumbo jet was headed for Cape Town and had to land in Paris.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Michael Marra

How many ministerial directions have you had regarding the budget process?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Michael Marra

No, I am afraid that it is not, Mr Marks. I am talking about the revised costings in the original financial memorandum, not the revised proposals.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Michael Marra

We will wait and see.

When you were here last year, I asked you about the status of the resource spending review, the very large growth in the size of the civil service over recent years and the previous commitment of the then finance secretary to reduce the size of the civil service to pre-Covid levels. That finance secretary has now returned to the Government as Deputy First Minister. You were unable to tell us the status of the resource spending review at your appearance last year. Is that back on the table? Are we looking at that trajectory again?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Michael Marra

The resource analysis that was done, at significant public expense, does not really inform that trajectory; it is just about where the ministerial plans are for each individual area.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Michael Marra

Have they agreed to take those practices on board?