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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 July 2025
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

That is useful.

Following on from Mr Mason’s questions, I want to touch on the integration authorities. Can you give me an update of your estimated costs for the changes necessary to introduce the new versions of the IJBs?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

So, if the total cost is £65.8 million, it feels to me, given the answers that you gave to my colleague, that the costs are pretty much going to be the same.

Let us take the health and social care partnership in Dundee. At the moment, there are 18 members sitting on that board and the votes are split equally. There are six voting members—three from local authorities and three from the health board. Are you proposing that we change that model?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

Do you mean that, if the committee had signed off the original FM, we would potentially have been looking at a bill of £3.9 billion?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

You do not know—okay. I think that that role is key. My view is that those organisations are non-strategic because of the critical interaction between the two sources of finance, and I am not hearing any clarity in the proposals about how you are going to deal with those finances differently. It is all tied up in the votes, as far as I can see. If you do not deal with that issue, I do not think that we have answers to that.

On the interaction with the national care board, from the answers that you have given, I am still struggling to understand the point at which a decision might be taken nationally to instruct one of the integration authorities to do something. Is that the relationship that you foresee?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

The intervention powers are already there and ministers can already do that. You have said that you want to increase local democratic accountability; I am wondering about the interaction between that and the national board. Suppose a local authority says that it does not have any money and is skint because it has had its budget cut for more than a decade—or probably for 15 years by then—and that it does not have any more money to put in. Is it your view that the national body will tell it to put money in?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

That is 30 million quid to not tell local authorities to do things differently, because you said that you do not envisage local authorities being told that they should do things differently or spend more money.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michael Marra

In England, an invitation to make applications was published on 2 October 2022, which included guidance for the expression of interest, and those investment zones were announced in the budget on 15 March 2023. In Scotland, there was no bidding or invitation process at all. Neil Gray answered a written question from me in July last year, saying that

“The invitation to host an Investment Zone was not subject to a bidding or application process”.—[Written Answers, 20 July 2023; S6W-19604.]

Again, why the divergence?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michael Marra

You stress the issue of transparency, but I am disappointed that you think it is acceptable for the process not to be published ahead of time. Let me draw you into the speculation around this in a lot of the coverage at the time. The investment zones were allocated in Glasgow, where the SNP is defending seats in the general election, and in Aberdeenshire, where the Conservatives are defending seats in the general election. Do you understand that, in the absence of published criteria and a process ahead of time, you open up both parties—the Conservatives and the SNP—to accusations of the kind that I am making?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michael Marra

I am sorry to interrupt, but, on that point, you said that local authorities did not want a competitive process.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Replacing European Union Structural Funds

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Michael Marra

Do you not think that it was not even suboptimal but really unacceptable that the selection criteria and process were published only retrospectively—seven weeks after the decision was announced? Again, that is in stark contrast to what happened in the English process.