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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Displaying 2160 contributions
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 18 February 2025
Michael Marra
That relates to the recommendation that you took to the civil service. It gave you the costings. However, you told us in your response that you considered a range of possible approaches. Did the civil service provide you with information about other approaches or was it just one approach?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 18 February 2025
Michael Marra
That is good to hear.
I will close on public sector reform. We have heard about the money that is to be saved and about Minister McKee’s work in that area and the summit that he held this week. You have already set out some useful figures showing projected additional savings of £380 million in the years to come, which is good to hear. Ivan McKee said that the framework for some of that will be delivered near the start of the 2025-26 financial year.
What is the difference between what we are seeing now and the resource spending review that the Government stopped? What do you think is the difference between those two programmes? One was published three years ago. You previously told us, and have said again today, that that was a bit of a blunt tool, so what do you think is the difference between the programme that was put in front of Parliament three years ago and the process that is now being undertaken?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 18 February 2025
Michael Marra
The committee has been quite clear about our desire to see a directed plan that follows a strategy. The committee is unanimous on that, as is shown in what we have published.
The resource spending review asked for
“investment in systems and processes, with targeted workforce growth in priority areas”,
and said that
“We do not propose a uniform approach due to varying trends in demand for different services.”
The resource spending review acknowledged that there was no global figure for reduction, but that there were specific plans for different areas, which is the same as what is being described now. So, my core question is this: have we just wasted the three years between the publication of that document and where we are now?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 18 February 2025
Michael Marra
You are the director of public spending for the Scottish Government, Mr McCallum, so you will have a direct insight into this. Is bringing the policy solution and then asking the civil service to cost it up and do it a typical way of developing a policy? Is a more typical way not to go to the civil service and have a discussion about the minister’s intent and what they are seeking to achieve, and for the civil service to then come back with options and say, “These are what we think are the best ways to do it, minister,” so that you can make a decision on that, because you are the Government?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 18 February 2025
Michael Marra
Yes, absolutely. One of my concerns is pace and how long it is taking. Children are living in poverty right now, and we want that action to take place as soon as possible. In your response to our report, you said that you considered different options around pace, but you are not setting out any other options to me. You have said one thing here, which is the evidence that you have just given. Were the civil servants involved in the discussions?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 18 February 2025
Michael Marra
Okay. I will move on.
We have covered some national insurance issues. There are shared concerns about the impact on the public sector and the private sector. Across the board, it is a real challenge. What would your alternative be for raising the £5.2 billion of extra funding that has come into the budget for Scotland? How should that money have been raised?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 18 February 2025
Michael Marra
Much of what you have just said is about further expenditure. My question was about how that money would be raised. The First Minister said that
“the UK Government should have increased income tax”—[Official Report, 14 November 2024; c 13.]
to the level that we have in Scotland. The Fraser of Allander Institute published its analysis of that on 17 January and said that, if what the First Minister had suggested had been done, Scotland’s block grant would have lost £636 million.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 18 February 2025
Michael Marra
The cost of that, as modelled by the Scottish Fiscal Commission, is £155 million rising to £198 million, which is one fifth of a billion pounds. Is it typical of the way that you would take a decision in Government that you take one proposal to the civil service and it gives you some kind of answer? It does not give you any other options. You do not set out the proposal, which is that you rightly want to lift children out of poverty and to meet statutory child poverty targets. You do not go to the civil service with a range of options or have the civil servants provide you with a range of options. You just go with one thing and it comes back and says—
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 18 February 2025
Michael Marra
Do you wish that that had happened when the resource spending review was published?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 18 February 2025
Michael Marra
To be fair, cabinet secretary, we are having a debate on the matter this afternoon, as you have said, and there have been several of those in Parliament.