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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 May 2025
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Displaying 1491 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

I am keen to get on the record the costs in the first instance. We have quite an unusual set of papers. There was an original financial memorandum, then an updated financial memorandum, and now there is a new financial memorandum. According to the first set of figures in the original financial memorandum, the delivery could cost between £644 million and £1,261 million. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

Could you give me those extrapolated figures again, please?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

I have not heard that figure before, but that might just be ignorance on my part. The figure in the updated financial memorandum is £880 million to £2,192 million over 10 years. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

You said in one of your earlier answers that you want to enhance local democratic accountability. In the health and social care partnership in Dundee—the IJB or integration authority; they are the same thing—there are three elected members out of 18 people. Do you not think that there should be a majority of elected councillors on those bodies?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

How much is that national body going to cost, according to the memorandum?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

That is useful. Government policy includes a presumption against establishing new public bodies, but is it your view that the national care service would be an exception? Has the minister agreed that it would be a further exception to that rule?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

For clarity, because we talked about the different names for the same thing—IJB, integration authority—you are suggesting that the new integration authority will replace what is there. You are suggesting not that it will be an additional body but that it will be a replacement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

The new financial memorandum—given the likely amendments at stage 2—gives us a figure of £631 million to £916 million.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

That was going to be one of my questions. Would you say that my figures are correct because the original memorandum covered five years?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 23 January 2024

Michael Marra

Your last point, about how the dynamics of the money work, is perhaps key. Those dynamics do not work at the moment because the partnerships are funded jointly by the NHS and local authorities. They put money into the pot and then pull it back out again, and there is no real strategic intent as to what they are doing. The six voting members are split 50:50, so that is where it lands. Are you proposing to change that, or are you in a process of longer-term negotiation about what that might look like?