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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 May 2025
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Displaying 1491 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

Do you see a point at which the Parliament, or even you, might observe the field and say, “My work here is done”?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

I will pose a final question to each of you. Logically, could your work be done by the Parliament? Could your work, Dr Plastow, be done by the Parliament?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

I want to start on the advocacy issue and I will come to Nicola Killean first. You mentioned that tackling big systemic issues takes many years. We have had a children’s commissioner for 21 years in Scotland. Where do you think that the children’s commissioner’s office has improved outcomes for children?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Michael Marra

I am sorry to interrupt. I absolutely agree with what you have said about appointments, but you are making a case for having stronger enforcement functions that would allow you to instruct public bodies or public services on what to do. How would that relate to the democratic function of an elected Parliament? Who should be accountable for the direction of public services?

I sound as though I am being quite harsh on you all, but I think that these are political questions and that you would be well within your rights to say, “This is your job.” My concern is that we are ceding part of our job to you and that you are perhaps requesting to have more of those functions.

There is a question about what kind of country we want to live in. We have elections, parties put forward manifestos and politicians are then elected to make such decisions. Is it not the case that we would be adding an extra layer beyond that? For instance, we would be asking you to make some of those decisions if we gave you the extra powers that Jan Savage described.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Michael Marra

Ms MacMillan, we are trying to draw out broader lessons from your report at the outset of our inquiry. The discussion has been useful so far. It is clear that you are saying that there is a lack of coherence across the landscape—that comes through quite strongly in your report. Is that a fair comment?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Michael Marra

You then went about the process of having structured interviews—conversations with a limited number of people. However, it is probably fair to say that it is quite difficult to come up with a broader framework based on that evaluation.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Michael Marra

I hear you on that.

Through the inquiry, my committee colleagues and I are going to be quite concerned about outcomes and, as politicians, we will be trying to understand how the commissioner landscape best provides better outcomes for specific groups of people and for the broader population. You have said that the purpose of your research was not to evaluate outcomes, but you stated that the evidence that you gathered indicated scepticism from different parts of communities in relation to the proposal that having a commissioner would lead to better outcomes. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Michael Marra

I am keen to get observations from this work on the causality and the relationship with better outcomes. It is almost about the theory of change, if I could put it that way. There is the idea of having a commissioner, as understood by the people you spoke to, and the idea that it might produce better outcomes. I am asking you to comment not on the outcomes, but on the theory of change in terms of a person being appointed and the idea that things might get better.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Michael Marra

Page 6 of your report mentions the “accountability gap”. What is meant by that phrase?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Michael Marra

I will close with a question on the process of establishing a commissioner. You were almost a participant in that, in that you provided the background research on the idea that the Government department was approaching.

I was intrigued by the quote on page 9 of your report, which says that correspondents felt that

“the campaign for a commissioner had been done to their communities, not with them.”

That is evidence that you have taken and it probably speaks to some of the concerns that the committee expressed at the outset about the policy-making process of establishing a commissioner. Is it a politician’s idea or a third sector idea, rather than something that is based in the community of people that the commissioner is meant to be serving?

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