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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 August 2025
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

That opens up a whole pile of questions, but I have had my time.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

No—it is on the cabinet’s secretary’s last point. The committee was moved significantly by that evidence and the need for urgent action. We heard about one individual who was in prison as a result of not appearing as a witness, and we know about the lengths of the delays. Every day that that individual spends in prison affects their future life chances. Can you provide assurances that there is a sense of urgency from Government ministers and that they are doing something about the issue, rather than just reviewing the situation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

Cabinet secretary, you mentioned that you will endeavour to seek consensus and that you will take your time—that is one of the things that you said. One of the committee’s witnesses last week found it quite difficult to understand why you would not wait to take on board the conclusions of a public inquiry that has been established to determine what powers there should be and why we are talking about a sequence in which we are legislating and then thinking about the situation. Can you answer that question for them?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

It would be useful to have that data.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

Last week, I asked Paul Little of Colleges Scotland and Alastair Sim of Universities Scotland what specific problem they felt that the Government was trying to solve with the legislation. Neither of them could answer that question—in fact, one of them said that they were

“at a ... loss to understand”—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 2 March 2022; c 7.]

the purpose of what was being proposed in the legislation.

That response came from members of the Government’s education recovery group—people who are intimately involved in this work. Do you not have a job to do in partnership working to convince key stakeholders that the legislation is necessary, and that it will help people rather than harm them?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

More generally. After all—and in line with Willie Rennie’s questions—if the nursery is not there, eligible two-year-olds will not be able to access the offer. Do you undertake any exercises to understand the health of the sector?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

Therefore, in essence, the legislation contains the powers to do the same things but in a slightly different form. One of the principal criticisms, and one of the reasons that the UK—England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland—has one of the worst records globally for its response to the pandemic, is that we based our response on plans for the previous pandemics. That is always a problem. Other countries have made similar mistakes, but ours have been particularly acute. At the start of the pandemic, we were thinking that we were in a flu situation, but we were not; it is a different form of virus. We put in place and used the plans and ideas that we had waiting, but we were wrong in that regard. You understand the critique and concern.

I understand that there is a balance to strike with regard to preparation and putting in place enabling legislation, powers or something from the shelf, as the convener suggested. However, if we do not really learn the lessons and analyse the situation that we are in, is that not the worst of all worlds?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Michael Marra

We should consider the weight of the evidence. Last week, the Government presented an analysis of the responses to the consultation, in which it asked us to disregard 96 per cent of the responses because they were opposed to the bill. The remaining 4 per cent of responses came from those who had given evidence at committee, and none of them—nobody—thought that the legislation was a good idea.

09:45  

You talk about building consensus. It seems that you have managed to build a consensus of opposition to what you are putting in place. Those who make up the 4 per cent are people who provide Government services, and they have issued caveats and made reasonable and reasoned objections. There is no support for the bill—nobody thinks that it is the right thing to do.

If you were endeavouring to seek consensus, you have achieved it, but it is a consensus of opposition. Have you got it wrong in the way that you are proceeding?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Michael Marra

Alastair Sim, do you understand my characterisation of the situation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Michael Marra

Thank you. I have my substantive questions as well.