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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Displaying 2160 contributions
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
Your last point, about how the dynamics of the money work, is perhaps key. Those dynamics do not work at the moment because the partnerships are funded jointly by the NHS and local authorities. They put money into the pot and then pull it back out again, and there is no real strategic intent as to what they are doing. The six voting members are split 50:50, so that is where it lands. Are you proposing to change that, or are you in a process of longer-term negotiation about what that might look like?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
Okay, but you do not think that the fundamental power dynamic will change. The two organisations—the NHS and local authorities—will continue to put money into the pot to fund the social care outcome.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
What is the total?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
I find that broader illustration useful. I am trying to explore the interaction between how money is spent and raised at local and national levels and the point at which there is an instruction on that, rather than saying that that is the only function.
Perhaps you could explain to me a bit about co-design, which you mentioned. I find it a little difficult to believe that a group of care users—people who rely on care services and the great work that our carers do through local authorities and others—came together in a room and said, “What we need in order to make our lives better is a fairly cosmetic tweak to the IJB and a board that might advise ministers as to when they might want to use the powers that they already have.” Was that the tone of the conversation? Those people have the lived experience that you have mentioned. Surely they were saying, “I need more frequent care visits, and I need somebody who will be able to stay longer.” I recognise that you are setting out the framework, but drawing the line between the money that we are spending and those outcomes seems to me to be pretty tenuous at best.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
I am keen to get on the record the costs in the first instance. We have quite an unusual set of papers. There was an original financial memorandum, then an updated financial memorandum, and now there is a new financial memorandum. According to the first set of figures in the original financial memorandum, the delivery could cost between £644 million and £1,261 million. Is that correct?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
Could you give me those extrapolated figures again, please?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
I have not heard that figure before, but that might just be ignorance on my part. The figure in the updated financial memorandum is £880 million to £2,192 million over 10 years. Is that correct?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
You said in one of your earlier answers that you want to enhance local democratic accountability. In the health and social care partnership in Dundee—the IJB or integration authority; they are the same thing—there are three elected members out of 18 people. Do you not think that there should be a majority of elected councillors on those bodies?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
How much is that national body going to cost, according to the memorandum?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 23 January 2024
Michael Marra
That is useful. Government policy includes a presumption against establishing new public bodies, but is it your view that the national care service would be an exception? Has the minister agreed that it would be a further exception to that rule?