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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 20 December 2025
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Displaying 1960 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

When the medium-term financial strategy was published, the Scottish Parliament information centre, the Fraser of Allander Institute and the Institute for Fiscal Studies all commented that figures for the policy were missing from those projections, so whatever you are being given to spend to make the policy happen is not included in them.

It comes down to the question of what comes first. You are saying a lot about co-design and putting the right system in place, but I am not getting a sense of real confidence that we are working in a financially prudent way to think about the financial limitations. How far are such limitations informing the co-design process?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Michael Marra

I want to get away from the stickiness side of it, although I think that that is right. However, in this scenario, we are trying to recruit somebody internationally. Are we going to prevent the NHS from being able to do that? Again, it is a key service for the poorest people in Scotland. Have you done any work on how your proposals might have an impact on those two issues?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Michael Marra

Any colleague, but I think—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Michael Marra

No. Sorry.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Michael Marra

I will take one step back to the questions that the convener was pushing on. Your response on tax rates was that, essentially, you believe that the jobs involved are sticky. There are two other issues in that. I was speaking to doctors yesterday at general practitioner surgeries in Dundee, and they were telling me that they do not have a head count problem but that nobody works five days, so they have a massive capacity problem and cannot deliver. That is a trend in the workforce anyway. Will the changes in the differential tax rate that you propose not impact on that?

The other thing that I have problems with in Dundee is attracting breast cancer oncologists. You will know that breast cancer rates for the poorest women are much, much worse than those for richer women, so this is actually about poor people. That is an internationally competitive sector, and we are finding it difficult to bring people to Scotland to do that. What modelling have you done or what consideration have you given to whether it is more likely that I will get breast cancer oncologists in Dundee to help those women if we increase those tax rates?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Michael Marra

Would anybody else like to respond?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Michael Marra

My final question might be more of an observation. On multiyear budgets, you mentioned political instability and the difficulty in 2016. I recall calls for multiyear budgets going back as far as 2010. Looking back, we thought that we had political stability, and the Scottish Government was not delivering multiyear budgets at that point. Is that something that is intrinsic to the political performance of the Scottish Parliament, our institutions and the relationship with local government? I recognise that instability is now the key driving factor, but there is a longer-term problem.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Michael Marra

Even under the relatively stable longer-term budgets, the Scottish Government still did not deliver multiyear funding settlements to Scottish public services prior to 2015. It did not do that. It says in the papers that people called for it in 2013. I am challenging this, because I worry that, although political instability in the UK is the key issue right now, if we cannot deliver multiyear funding it is a big problem. Let us hope that we can do so. Is there something about the way in which this place performs that means that people are more reactive, in setting one-year budgets? I am wondering whether we will not find multiyear funding to be the solution.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Michael Marra

Alastair, you know that I am a big supporter of the universities in Dundee, and we have had conversations regularly, but you will also be aware that we have industrial action this week at various institutions across the country. Unite and the University and College Union are out, looking for pay that is commensurate with something approaching the cost of living, frankly. How can we make sure that our universities are delivering the pay deals that we require, given that we are sitting here talking about budgets?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Michael Marra

There definitely is not. In our previous evidence session, Professor David Heald talked about people negotiating their net pay position. In essence, he was agreeing with you that, internationally, people will look at that. Whether there is less pay because of tax or a lower basic wage is probably immaterial to somebody making that move internationally. Does that not result in the national health service having to pay substantially more to make up for the cuts and it becoming a vicious cycle where, on your logic, the public sector has to pay into the system rather than gain from it?