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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 May 2025
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Displaying 1489 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Michael Marra

I am afraid that we have had those representations from across the sector, including secondary schools, primary schools and the tertiary sector. I do not think that we are going to agree on what is happening here. The Scottish Government is taking money away from the poorest communities, and the poorest kids are paying the cost of providing for other kids in poverty across Scotland. Those kids require funding, but I cannot agree, as the cabinet secretary clearly does, that that has to come at the expense of the kids in the poorest communities in this country.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Michael Marra

I thank the cabinet secretary for her evidence so far. On 23 May 2018, the Deputy First Minister told the Education and Skills Committee that the utilisation of PEF to replace an existing service was unacceptable and would be a breach of the condition of grant. Does that remain Scottish Government policy?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Michael Marra

Okay. Does the cabinet secretary agree that, when services are withdrawn due to pressure on local authority budgets and schools maintain those services through PEF, that constitutes substitution for cuts and is not allowed?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Michael Marra

Absolutely.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Michael Marra

Excuse me, cabinet secretary. People in Charleston and Dundee are losing staff who work directly with their children. Can you address those concerns instead of giving numbers?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Michael Marra

I think that I just found the money, cabinet secretary.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Michael Marra

I was just reflecting on Mr Mundell’s questions about the design of the policy. When we put some questions to Education Scotland last week, I asked it whether it had raised any concerns about the impact on existing challenge authorities of the new formulation and how it was designed, and it said that it had not. I asked whether anyone else had raised any such concerns and it said, “Not particularly.” Do you recall whether those things were talked through around the methodology design? Did you raise those concerns?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Michael Marra

Cabinet secretary, your failure to win arguments about your budget with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy is, to be frank, not just a concern that we have here. That is—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Michael Marra

To be clear, I have had conversations with other directors of education who are perhaps less clear on that point, so I am just trying to get clarity for them.

I refer to a report that you will not have in front of you from Dundee City Council, which is dealing with a 79 per cent cut in its Scottish attainment challenge funding. That report of 24 January 2022 identifies 106 posts that will have to be cut as a result of the £5 million reduction in funding from the Government. Jim Thewliss, a former headteacher from Dundee, was in front of the committee a few weeks ago. He was trying to understand how Dundee would cope, and he did not think that it could on that basis. The report says that

“work will no longer be centrally funded from this funding as schools can now procure this service if required”.

I think that that backs up what you have said about using PEF to pay for SAC cuts. Is that fair?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Michael Marra

To be fair, it was your policy, not my policy, to ignore those pupils. It is good that money is now available to local authorities. For example, under the new formula, Fife Council is up £2 million, but it has lost £290 million in the past decade through the cuts that you have made. It is understandable if Fife Council welcomes that £2 million, but that does not deal with the issue that I am focusing on. The challenge authorities were picked on the basis of multiple deprivation, deep poverty and huge barriers. We are talking about more than £6 million this year, and that figure will rise to £25 million over the course of this parliamentary session. Surely the Government can find it in its heart to put that money back in order to protect those 106 posts. Those people include speech and language therapists who work with the absolutely poorest kids. Those are the posts that are under threat.