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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 May 2025
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Displaying 1489 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

The witnesses might have picked up on the session that we had with Education Scotland prior to the summer recess, in which senior officials told the committee that the organisation was not being scrapped. I think that it is fair to say that the Scottish Government has been very clear on that issue and on the SQA’s status. What will be different about Scotland’s qualifications agency after the process is completed?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

On that point, Ken Muir’s report was quite clear in recommending the separation of awarding functions from accreditation and regulation. Do you think that separation, which is a clear recommendation, will be taken forward?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

There are currently four non-executive directors in addition to the board members, which makes a total of 11, the majority of whom—six—are employees of the SQA.

I suppose that where I am going with this is that members of the committee and external organisations have expressed concern that—just as happened with Education Scotland—we are looking at a rebrand rather than at a replacement or a substantive reform.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

But—if I may, please—in contrast with much of your submission to the committee and what we have heard, the Government has concluded that the organisation has failed in recent years, otherwise it would not be scrapping it.

The question now is what replaces the organisation. It strikes me that, if the system is driven by the management of the existing organisation—we are being told by some that their organisations are not even being scrapped—can we really have faith that this reform process is based on the needs of the future? Should external voices not be being heard? Should users not be represented in the process? Should such people not make the decisions, rather than the six SQA managers—including you, Mr Baxter—who are listed on my piece of paper?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

The committee would recognise the challenge of undertaking both functions at the same time. My answer to that is to ask why things are taking quite so long, with a transition process taking years and a national conversation after the conclusion of a qualifications review. That exacerbates the problem. The—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

If I may continue.

The conclusion of ministers is that the organisation has failed. You shake your head at that again, but the organisation is being closed and replaced because of decisions that it took. The cabinet secretary took the decisions to do that, I assume at Cabinet and with the imprimatur of the First Minister. That is a significant change, and that process is taking years. The problems that Mr Baxter describes around running a system while reforming that system are of the making of that reform process. My belief is that that could be happening an awful lot quicker than it is happening at the moment. Those problems are being created by a situation that has been pulled out over a period of years.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

My first question is a supplementary question. You have recognised, as we do, the impact that the pandemic has had on young people in recent years. That is also recognised in the methodology for the results that have just come out—we can all see that.

One of the consequences is that young people have experienced a significant amount of lost learning. That is recognised in the curtailed assessment curriculum, which means that fewer things are being assessed. I know from speaking to colleges, universities and employers that they are seeing the impact of that in the young people who are coming to them. There are lab techniques that have not been learned and things that have not been assessed. Where do you think that that lost learning should be made up?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

Thank you.

10:30  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

I would genuinely like to know where that is happening. That is my question.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Qualifications Authority

Meeting date: 7 September 2022

Michael Marra

Okay.