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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 July 2025
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Displaying 1714 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

I assume that in the business case and the policy evaluation we would see that great social benefit, the preventative money and where we would save money. I am in full agreement, minister, with regard to those huge, varied benefits, but the reality is that we have to be able to pay for them.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

I think so, because we all know the huge costs of the failure to eliminate delayed discharge.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

In your letter to us, you committed to completing stage 1 by 31 January 2024. The convener has it on the record that the financial memorandum should be provided four weeks prior to that date. Working back, we are looking at your having to provide the financial memorandum—by my reckoning—by around 11 December. Do you have a date in your diaries for when you will send the financial memorandum to the committee?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

Have you decided on the inclusion of children’s services?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

Do you have any indication of the costs that are associated with that? That is thousands of staff, isn’t it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

That will be stage 1. Will the cost impacts be included in the financial memorandum?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

It feels to me as though there are an awful lot of moving parts. There have been questions from colleagues about our still being in the depths of co-design and our not having taken a decision on the inclusion of critical areas such as children’s services, around which there are huge financial issues. Taking into account recess, we are looking, by my reckoning, at having to receive that memorandum roughly on 11 December, which is just weeks away. Do we have a draft of the financial memorandum?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

So, she has not given any indication of the spending envelope that might be available.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

When the medium-term financial strategy was published, the Scottish Parliament information centre, the Fraser of Allander Institute and the Institute for Fiscal Studies all commented that figures for the policy were missing from those projections, so whatever you are being given to spend to make the policy happen is not included in them.

It comes down to the question of what comes first. You are saying a lot about co-design and putting the right system in place, but I am not getting a sense of real confidence that we are working in a financially prudent way to think about the financial limitations. How far are such limitations informing the co-design process?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Michael Marra

Minister, you will be aware that the Government’s medium-term financial strategy projects a shortfall of £1 billion in 2024-25 and £1.9 billion in 2027-28. What has the Cabinet Secretary for Finance told you that the country can afford to spend on the national care service?