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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 May 2025
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Displaying 994 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Paul O'Kane

Let us turn to the stakeholder engagement that you have undertaken in preparing the bill. We have heard clear evidence on the importance of stakeholders’ lived experience and about its range, breadth and depth. Which areas might contribute to the expert advice that would go into the creation of the benefit?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Paul O'Kane

I want to return to the comparison between a non-statutory working group and your proposal. Last week, the Government said that we will have a non-statutory working group. You touched on some of this in your exchange with Mr Doris, but it would be useful for us to hear you compare that working group with your proposed council. Why is having that on a statutory footing so important in ensuring that recommendations are acted on and implemented?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Paul O'Kane

Your contention is that the Government would be able to abolish a working group on a whim, which would mean that we would lose the richness and diversity of representation. We heard the trade unions speak about the importance of having that worker representation. I also note Marie McNair’s point about gender balance being locked in under the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018.

Essentially, you are saying that, without a statutory underpinning, the body would be much looser. Rather than the expertise that sits on it being chosen by the Government, you believe that it is important to lay out the requirements in statute so that there is a clear path to people being represented on it.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Paul O'Kane

Good morning, Mr Griffin. I am keen to understand the opportunity for reform, which we have already mentioned. Last week, the Scottish Government, through the cabinet secretary, argued that the bill would not deliver a reformed benefit, and we have already heard discussion to that effect today. Will you explain how setting up SEIAC would address the desire for reform that was expressed by the stakeholders from whom we heard?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Paul O'Kane

Is there time for me to ask a further question?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Paul O'Kane

I am confused. Last week, when Lady Dorrian was asked directly about what engagement there had been over the proposed amendments, she said that

“high-level suggestions have been made to us”

and she spoke about being “presented with a paper” that the senators felt that they

“could not respond to, because it was lacking in detail. Another paper was submitted to us that had more detail, but at a very high level”.

The senators had

“not looked at detailed proposals for amendment. Insofar as we were able to, we responded to that in as ... helpful a way as we could.”

Crucially, Lady Dorrian said that

“the devil is in the detail”,—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 28 November 2023; c 13, 7.]

and explained that it is not possible to comment on detail that is not there. I am trying to understand why we are in this position.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Paul O'Kane

I am trying to understand why we are in the position of having to amend the bill at stage 2. The committee does not have the detail on that and nor do the Lord President and the senators of the College of Justice. The minister would accept that it is highly unusual for the most senior judges in the country to come to a committee of the Scottish Parliament to give evidence. Will she outline clearly what consultation took place with the Lord President and what information he was given about the amendments?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Paul O'Kane

I appreciate the degree to which we want to find consensus, and the Lord President and other stakeholders are obviously keen to make a contribution, but would the minister accept that it is for the committee to make a judgment on the amendments, that any changed nature of the bill will once again need to be scrutinised, and that that is a real challenge for the committee in carrying out its democratic function in the timescales that we have?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Paul O'Kane

I will continue from where Katy Clark left off.

The committee has heard significant criticisms of IIDB. For example, Ian Tasker told the committee that it is

“no longer fit for purpose”.

Given those criticisms, is it still an option to introduce EIA largely unreformed? Does the cabinet secretary recognise the criticisms of IIDB and does she view it as acceptable to introduce a benefit in that state?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Paul O'Kane

The cabinet secretary has made that point a number of times. The issue is that the pledge to carry out a consultation is now three years old. Can the cabinet secretary give the committee any sense of the timescale for the consultation? As I said, the last month of the year starts tomorrow. Clearly, you are not going to deliver a consultation this year, so is there any indication of when it is going to happen?