:Given that you have been in your current role for, I think, four years and you have extensive experience beyond that, were you surprised that there had not been that level of work prior to November and prior to pulling together those proposals, which seemed quite quick and rushed to some of us? Were you surprised that that work had not been on-going among the four inspectorates?

:Thanks, Mr Naylor. That is useful for the committee’s consideration. I do not want to do a disservice to the work that has been done because we are making progress, which is important, and you have clearly done work previously.

I will pivot to Bill Kidd’s line of questioning. We heard that there are cross-border issues that the various agencies are working on. Will you expand on where the interaction is happening? Is there a particular issue in terms of large urban centres? In the city of Glasgow, for example, there are known issues around the transport network in and around Central station. What interaction is happening on that?

I heard Professor Jay mention that there was a particular cross-border issue between Ireland and the north of England at one point. I am interested to know whether there is a similar issue with the proximity of Northern Ireland to Scotland in relation to trafficking and other such issues. What interaction would Police Scotland have with the port of Cairnryan, for example, which is the major link? What does the issue look like in a Scottish context? Is it a predominantly urban issue in and around transport hubs?

At the outset, I remind the committee that my husband is a registered social worker and a service manager in children and families social work.

Good morning to the panel. Professor Jay, the last time that you were with us, you and I had an exchange about the progress of the review and some of the complexities and confusions. We are a number of months on. I have heard some of this already this morning, but is it your view that things are progressing well? Will the review be able to pull together many of the themes that we discussed when you were with us before Christmas and those that we have discussed this morning?

11:15

:That is a useful overview.

I will ask a final question—I was going to put the same point to Police Scotland. I appreciate that there will be limitations on what you can say about any operational matters or on-going investigations. There is sometimes, from some quarters, a sense that we in Scotland do not have the type of county lines problem that exists in other parts of the UK, so it would be good to get a sense of the situation from you. I represent the west coast outwith Glasgow, and I see evidence of some of those issues in some of our coastal communities in particular. It would be useful to hear any reflections from Police Scotland on that.

:I have listened to what you said there and to your exchanges with other committee members. Professor Jay’s work has been going on for some time and we know from examples in England that there are issues with some discrete groups. I entirely appreciate what you said about the role of the inspectorates and the high standard of work that they are doing on behalf of us all, but is there a sense that this came to a head and became a clear issue just before Christmas, and that the response has been to pull the inspectorates together? Should that have happened much sooner? Would you have welcomed an impetus from the Government or from Parliament to do that sooner so that there was a longer lead-in time for such important work? I am heartened to hear that Professor Jay thinks that the work is progressing well, but should that have happened sooner?

:Although I take your point that members did not respond directly to your call for views, I respectfully suggest that that was being raised in other ways, including in the chamber and in committees. Do you accept that there has been a debate for at least a year or two?

Good morning. Ross Greer has covered much of my line of questioning. However, I am interested in the comparison that has been made this morning between England and Scotland and in the contention that the independent sector in Scotland is not the same as the sector in England. Eton and Harrow were mentioned in particular. On reflection, would the witnesses accept that that is perhaps not a helpful comparison, given what Mr O’Neill said about trying to communicate better the nature of the sector in Scotland? We heard from Mr Greer that there clearly are independent schools in Scotland that can be compared directly to places such as Eton and Harrow in terms of fees. Do you have such comparative information readily available? Have you done a comparison that would prove your point that the Scottish sector is not the same as the English sector? That is my first question. Secondly, do you have any reflections on the wider point that Mr O’Neill made about communication?

When you say history, do you mean the financial history?

Sure. You have helpfully moved me on to another area. You have referenced the Cedars school a number of times this morning. At one point, you said that probably nobody knew about Cedars. Obviously, I have represented West Scotland for five years, so I have been aware of the issues at Cedars. Would you accept that Cedars had financial difficulties prior to the VAT policy coming in?

Cedars was already struggling to attract pupils. That was one of the problems. I think that there were 75 pupils in 2023 although it had capacity for 120 pupils. There were a number of issues over many years that I will not go into, but there were clearly financial issues. As I understand it, the church was subsidising much of the work of the school. Is it your view that Cedars would still be here if it were not for the 20 per cent VAT? Is that the contention?