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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 February 2026
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Displaying 1203 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Katy Clark

I want to pick up on quite a few of the points that Jamie Greene has raised and get a better understanding of why we now have 16 and 17-year-olds in the prison estate. I appreciate that you have said that it is down to the courts. To what extent are there children on remand in secure units now?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Katy Clark

So they tend to be convicted children, or those referred by the children’s panel.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Katy Clark

Do you ever have children on remand? Have there been in the past?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Katy Clark

Much of the debate is about resources, including how we should shift them. We have been given figures on the cost of keeping someone in prison, which we are often told is around £40,000 per year. However, there is huge variation among prisons, and the newer prisons are a lot cheaper than the older ones. Do we have data on the average cost of keeping a child in a secure unit? I am just trying to get a feel for the resource issues.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Katy Clark

That is helpful. Gerald, would you like to add to that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Katy Clark

Do you envisage that, in future, children in that position, who have risks associated with them because of the nature of the offence, are likely to be taken to secure units for short periods of time? Is that your understanding of the policy going forward? Is that what is being suggested, as far as you understand it?

12:15  

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Katy Clark

It is just that you do not happen to have any at the moment.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Katy Clark

Right—I understand that.

Another issue that is raised by the bill relates to children being detained in police custody—children being kept in cells. Have you considered that? Are there ever circumstances in which that is just a necessity? What is your view on that issue? Potentially, somebody who is arrested on a Friday could be held until the Monday. Does that happen? Is that something that you are aware of? Is there a different provision for those short-term situations?

Criminal Justice Committee

Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Act 2018: Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 8 March 2023

Katy Clark

Unless any of the other panel members wants to add anything, I am happy to leave it there, and to pick it up with the next panel. I do not think that we have the data.

Criminal Justice Committee

Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Act 2018: Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 8 March 2023

Katy Clark

I appreciate what you, and all the other witnesses, said in relation to sentencing: that it is not your role to set sentencing guidelines. However, you have a role in the consistency of sentencing and, on occasion—I appreciate that this may be rare—you will lodge appeals in relation to sentencing. Is there a consistent approach to coercive control cases across Scotland, or have you had to mark appeals?