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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 July 2025
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Displaying 984 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Katy Clark

I take it from what you have said that you think that we need to review whether individuals who are currently on remand need to be where they are, or whether there are alternatives for them.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Katy Clark

I understand.

Will Stuart Murray pick up on that issue? What alternatives can you suggest as to what we do in the here and now, given the crisis that we face?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Katy Clark

That would be useful. Will you explain what the PDSO is?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Katy Clark

What you are saying conflicts strongly with the representations that lawyers and their representatives have made to us. If you can provide us with that information, we will put it to those organisations. They are saying clearly that there have been massive cuts, and we only have to look at the hourly rates et cetera to see that that is indeed the case. However, we would be very grateful for any information that you are able to provide.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Katy Clark

If you think that there is a need for continued use of automatic time extensions, how long would it be legitimate for those to continue?

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Katy Clark

There should be a focus on people in custody prior to trial.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Katy Clark

But you must surely accept that, if inflation is in the region of 7 per cent and the increase is 5 per cent, the value of the money that lawyers will be receiving is going down. It does not keep pace with inflation.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Katy Clark

I want to raise a point about the level of income, which has been put to us by the Law Society of Scotland, and I would like to hear your reaction. The Law Society is saying that, even taking into account the recent uplifts and the increase that will be introduced by the regulations, legal aid rates will be about 60 per cent lower in real terms than they were when the Scottish Parliament was created. It is quite obvious that hourly rates have not gone up by much. The Law Society of Scotland is saying that that is in the context of a long-term decline in overall legal aid expenditure, with the 2021-22 budget being £138 million, in comparison with £160 million in 2010-11. Do you accept all that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Katy Clark

It is clear that we have a crisis. The word “bottleneck” has already been used. When we heard from the Scottish Prison Service last week, it put the proportion of prisoners on remand at 30 per cent, which is higher than the previous figure that we were given—the most recent official figure—of 27 per cent. It is clear that we must address the problem. What are the alternatives? In what ways could we change the system to address the crisis? Does Vicki Bell have any suggestions, based on her experience?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Katy Clark

Approximately £500 million was cut from the legal aid budgets up until 2019. Since 2019, there have been increases. The 5 per cent increase that has been proposed in the Scottish statutory instrument before us is obviously below current inflation rates. Do you accept that it is, in effect, a cut?