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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 May 2025
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Displaying 935 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Katy Clark

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Katy Clark

I understand. Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Katy Clark

One of the major challenges that we still face is the backlog of cases. I know that there has been progress on that, but it is still a massive problem that is having a huge impact on all the individuals involved. The Crown Office submission suggests that the level of resource funding that might be required is around £207 million for 2024-25, taking into account pay rises. Can you set out how that figure has been reached? What are the potential implications if aspects of that might change?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Katy Clark

I understand. Do I have time for an additional question, convener? I know that we are under time pressure.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Katy Clark

Would you be willing to share the advice on legal liabilities with the committee? At the end of the day, all of us will have to pay the price if the fire service does not meet its obligations.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Katy Clark

This is a budget scrutiny process, so what are the budget implications of those challenges? Have you looked at that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Katy Clark

I understand.

As you know, 10 appliances and additional height appliances were withdrawn across Scotland last week, close to 1,100 uniformed firefighter jobs have already been lost and Ross Haggart has indicated that a further 780 full-time firefighter jobs could be lost in the next four years. You have also indicated in your evidence today that firefighters may not be available for the appliances that you have—they will not be able to be staffed. However, concerns are already being raised with us about the lack of availability of appliances and increased response times. I know that modelling has already been referred to this morning, but what work are you doing on the implications of the lack of availability of appliances for the public and on response times? What information are you able to share on what has happened since the 10 appliances were withdrawn?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Katy Clark

Is it fair to say that response times will continue to go up?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Katy Clark

The pay parity issue is clearly very important because some staff and groups of staff have legitimate claims in relation to their treatment and issues around comparative pay.

However, from a public point of view, the backlog continues to be a major problem. There were additional Covid funds. There is always the answer that more resources are needed not just in one part but in all parts of the justice sector to address the backlog, but on what basis are you making your projections for what you expect to happen to backlogs? Some individuals who have come to the committee have described completely unacceptable backlogs in cases being dealt with. Can you outline your approach to that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Katy Clark

What is your projection around the percentage?