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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 July 2025
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Displaying 984 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

Surely, in a murder case, which is a very serious case, the Crown will proceed if there is sufficiency of evidence. That would be the test that it would apply in a murder case.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

Is it generally the case that jury trials tend to lead to more acquittals than non-jury cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

I think that we understand that. However, we know that, in Scotland, the way that the Crown marks cases is based on sufficiency of evidence—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

You seem to be saying that it often comes down to who is believed in court.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

Given that we know that there are rape myths—we perhaps do not know exactly how they impact on every case or how often that is a massive factor—it is surely easier to educate and select judges, who are a relatively small group, in order to try to address rape myths in their decision making, than it would be to educate a new jury in every single rape case.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

Summary cases tend to lead to convictions, do they not?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

Mr Brown, do you accept that another potential criterion for the success of a pilot might be the experience of complainers? One of the issues that the committee has been very concerned about over a long time is the experience of complainers. Rape victims repeatedly say that they find it retraumatising to go through not just the process of the actual trial but the whole justice system. Do you accept that it is possible that taking the jury out of the process might impact on complainers’ experiences, and that that might be a criterion that we should consider?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

I understand that often the issue in a rape trial is consent.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

—which means that if the jury believes the evidence, there should be a conviction. That is what you would expect if the evidence is accepted by the court. Is that correct?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

So, yes—if the Crown evidence is accepted, there should be a conviction. We understand that many judges believe that they have been involved in sexual offences cases in which there could have been a conviction and it would have been justified, but the jury acquitted. Is it possible that we might get different outcomes if such cases were heard by a single judge? Given that this is a pilot—it is not changing the whole system; it is simply a pilot—do you think that that is worth looking at?