The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1945 contributions
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 March 2022
Katy Clark
Would it not be more sensible to have a pilot with a significant tranche of cases being dealt with in that way and then to evaluate the outcome of that, rather than making a permanent shift to a position where virtual trials are a default, which would be a significant change in the Scottish legal system?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 March 2022
Katy Clark
Concerns were first brought to people’s attention on 13 February, although I appreciate that the full extent of the problem might not have been apparent at that point. However, as yet, we have not got to the point at which cases are being looked at by those who deal with this work. Is that right?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 March 2022
Katy Clark
I appreciate that somebody might be a dangerous individual but might not have been convicted of any serious offences. However, many of that cohort would have had convictions. Did you ask for that information?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 March 2022
Katy Clark
What is the cabinet secretary’s understanding of how prisons differentiate between different types of prisoners? For example, during Covid, children in prison have been subject to the same measures to combat virus infection as adults have. How do the prisons balance those rights and look at individuals, particularly those who might be more vulnerable?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 March 2022
Katy Clark
I want to pick up the point that was made about other systems. Have you been able to work out the profile of the cases that we are talking about, particularly some of the more serious offences? How many sexual offenders are involved, for example? Given the huge workload that is involved in reviewing the cases, how have you prioritised them? Have you been able to prioritise some of the cases that would cause the public most concern? Perhaps you can outline your approach in layperson’s language.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 March 2022
Katy Clark
You have not actually asked professionals to do that yet.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 March 2022
Katy Clark
The bill suggests the use of virtual trials as a default. From what you have said and from the information that we have been able to gather, it sounds as though, up to now, only a very small number of cases have gone ahead. It is therefore difficult to take a view, given that those cases might be the ones that are most suitable for virtual trials and everybody is in agreement.
We are having to grapple with the issue of why the holding of a virtual trial should be the default even when that is not agreed to by all parties, which is my understanding of how the provisions in the bill would work. I presume that, at the end of the day, it would be the sheriff who would decide whether it was appropriate for a case to be virtual. That is quite a massive shift.
The purpose of the bill as it has been presented to us, and the reason that we have been given for why it is going through in a far more speedy process than would normally be the case in the Parliament, is to continue practices that have been taking place during the Covid pandemic. However, the evidence that we are getting is that, in reality, virtual trials have not been taking place in significant numbers, and they have not been the default. There have been only a small number of them. What evidence do we have that the model that is proposed in the bill has been tested?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 March 2022
Katy Clark
I am sorry to interrupt, but I think that you are straying into other issues to do with giving evidence remotely. What we are considering in the bill is a default position that there should be virtual trials for all domestic abuse cases, even where parties do not agree. I appreciate that that is your preference and that there may be reasons for that, but we have not really had that tested in many cases, have we?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 9 March 2022
Katy Clark
Sure. That is why I asked whether you were able to use other systems that you have in place to pick out the types of cases that might be of greatest concern. I wondered whether that has been incorporated into the work that is currently going on, so that the cases that were dealt with first were those involving the most serious offenders or offenders who have committed the types of offences that people would be most likely to be concerned about. Are you able to do that with the systems that are available to you?