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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 July 2025
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Displaying 1537 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

Topical Question Time

Meeting date: 24 January 2023

Katy Clark

The cabinet secretary will be aware of the specific problems in schools; I am sure that she will agree that teachers have an important role to play in addressing the issues. The EIS is calling for development of more specific anti-sexism learning in the curriculum and for issues such as misogyny to be explored through existing subjects. Will the cabinet secretary look at updating curriculum for excellence so that it includes across all subjects specific aims around tackling misogyny and promoting gender equality in schools?

Meeting of the Parliament

Fire Brigades Union DECON Campaign

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Katy Clark

Will the minister take an intervention?

Meeting of the Parliament

Fire Brigades Union DECON Campaign

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Katy Clark

I congratulate Maggie Chapman on securing the debate and thank the Fire Brigades Union for all the work that it is doing on the issue.

The exposure of firefighters to toxins during their employment is creating a health crisis. There are currently 357 fire stations in Scotland and the FBU estimates that more than 100 lack sufficient showering or toilet facilities.

That figure was confirmed by Interim Chief Officer Ross Haggart when I questioned him at the Criminal Justice Committee recently. He also confirmed that around one in four fire stations in this country lacks basic bathroom facilities and that some stations do not have a running water supply. In total, 220 stations are in poor or bad condition, 150 do not have showering facilities, 100 lack drying facilities and 11 have no water supply at all. The FBU also claims that a number of stations are held together by internal scaffolding.

The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has also cancelled a multimillion-pound contract for a new command and control system due to financial pressures. Mr Haggart estimated that £138 million is needed just to address those essential health and safety issues that have been highlighted. He also said that there was a backlog of £630 million in the fire service’s capital budget.

Those issues are nothing to do with this year’s budgetary issues or with whatever settlement might be coming from Westminster. The issues are a result of a failure to give the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service the resources that it needs to invest in its capital projects over many years. It is shameful that we are in this position today. The resource budget for the fire service has been cut by £40 million in real terms since 2012-13, and it is set to suffer further real-terms cuts over the next four years.

It is clear that there is a rich seam of research that shows that firefighting, as an occupation, is carcinogenic. It is also clear that the employer has a legal responsibility and that, if cases were taken to court, it would be liable.

The debate raises some very practical issues. From 2012-13 to last year, almost 1,100 firefighter jobs were cut across all uniformed posts in Scotland, which is almost 15 per cent of the total workforce. That is partially due to a lack of investment, but there is also a growing perception that firefighting is not a safe profession and that the pay levels are not attractive. The FBU is currently balloting its members with regard to pay.

The message that comes out of today’s debate is that the Scottish Government needs to make it a top priority to address the risks that are being highlighted. It has a legal responsibility to act, just as the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has a responsibility to put in place a safe system of work for the people whom it employs. Frankly, this situation is not good enough. Firefighters deserve better.

Meeting of the Parliament

Fire Brigades Union DECON Campaign

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Katy Clark

I am very aware that the minister is quite new to her role and that she has been presented with a massive challenge, but does she accept that the research that is coming out makes it clear that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has significant legal liabilities and that there will be a need for significant capital expenditure, which puts it into a priority category for attention? Is that something that the minister will try to address?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

I appreciate that we are running out of time. Is Stuart Munro able to add anything to that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

I have two questions, if that is okay, convener. The first is on the public safety test in the bill. As we know, that is simply not defined, which could cause a great deal of problems. Have you given any thought to how that test could be defined? If we were to keep it in the bill, how could we define it? I may be putting you on the spot too much now, so I would be quite happy to hear from you afterwards in writing.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

Thank you for that. Does Joanne McMillan have any thoughts on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

You might feel, again, that you are not able to answer my next question. We have heard about the importance of information being provided to the sheriff and the court. In the previous session, we were told that there was better provision of social workers in the courts back in the 1990s and early 2000s. That is quite anecdotal, so there might be great geographical differences in the levels of provision. Are you able to point us towards any evidence or work that has been done on the availability of that support in the courts? It is a resource issue rather than necessarily a legal issue. Do you have any experience of that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Katy Clark

When somebody is already in custody for something else so that there is no possibility that they would be getting released anyway, is that perhaps an example of an exception?