Chamber and committees

You cannot even go that far.

You will be aware that the committee is currently looking at new bail proposals. Has there been a change in practice as a result of the 2018 legislation? Can you outline whether it has had an impact on bail in relation to domestic abuse specifically? We are aware of the section 23 provisions, but has there been an increase in the use of remand in domestic abuse cases as a result of the various new offences being brought in?

The next panel might be better placed to answer this question. I have been looking through the papers to see whether I can get the information that I am looking for. I am interested in the extent to which you have been able to get information on conviction rates in relation to coercive control, and on the difficulty in securing convictions. At the beginning of the evidence session, there was a lot of discussion about police interpretation and guidelines, and whether we have case law to evaluate how well the courts can decide such cases.

Maybe Claire Houghton is best placed to answer that. I know that you have done some research, Claire, but I do not know to what extent you looked at that and how many cases you had to consider.

Unless any of the other panel members wants to add anything, I am happy to leave it there, and to pick it up with the next panel. I do not think that we have the data.

I appreciate what you, and all the other witnesses, said in relation to sentencing: that it is not your role to set sentencing guidelines. However, you have a role in the consistency of sentencing and, on occasion—I appreciate that this may be rare—you will lodge appeals in relation to sentencing. Is there a consistent approach to coercive control cases across Scotland, or have you had to mark appeals?

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am pleased to close the debate for Scottish Labour and to get the opportunity to thank the minister for bringing this important issue to the chamber.

The commitment to carry out research was made last year in a Labour Opposition debate on booking-office closures, so we are disappointed that the trade unions were not approached to take part in the consultation. I very much hope that they will be directly involved in such initiatives in the future.

There is no doubt that this is an important issue and that there is an urgent need to ensure that women and girls feel safer on public transport and at stops and stations.

I fully accept what the minister is saying. Indeed, women have been elected to positions in some of the major trade unions recently, such as Sharon Graham, who is general secretary of Unite, which is one of the leading unions that I am sure the minister meets. I have met many women activists in railway unions in Scotland, and I hope that the minister has met them, too.

As I said, it is important to lay down that marker. Tinkering around at the edges will not address the scale of the issue. A number of members referred to the work that was carried out by the women’s charity Engender. Its research has found that bus services are currently seen as being incompatible with women’s working patterns and that women are particularly concerned about safety on train travel, as we heard from a number of members. We have also heard—from Pam Duncan-Glancy, in particular—that disabled women lack assistance and feel insecure when travelling and when at stations and on platforms.

I was pleased that Pam Duncan-Glancy and Maggie Chapman spoke about Unite’s “Get me home safely” campaign, which asks employers to provide workers with safe and free transport home after 11 pm and when there is no public transport available.

Women’s sense of insecurity and fear is a persistent theme. A number of members have referred to the survey by the Office for National Statistics, which suggests that nearly half of women in Britain feel unsafe using public transport alone after dark, compared with around one in five men. That is not surprising. A number of members, including Jackie Dunbar and Graham Simpson, spoke of statistics from the British Transport Police that show that there were 63 reports of sexual assault on ScotRail trains between 2017 and 2021. Those are appalling figures.

The minister spoke about female public transport staff, who deal with unacceptable levels of abuse and antisocial behaviour. As Carol Mochan has said, in a survey that it carried out last year, the RMT trade union found that more than 80 per cent of ScotRail women workers had been subjected to violent or antisocial behaviour at work in the past year. Given that the problem seems to be increasing, and given that it is already an aggravated offence to assault or abuse emergency services workers, will the minister confirm whether the Scottish Government will extend that legislation to cover public transport workers?

As has been said in powerful testimony by a number of members, these issues require a change in attitude and culture. However, that will not be enough to address the challenge immediately. There is a need for significant investment in staffing and infrastructure.

The Scottish Government’s report lacks concrete recommendations on how to combat attitudes among men that lead to gender-based antisocial behaviour and violence, and we must think about whether we should put so much focus on the responsibility of women. I do not disagree with any of the report’s recommendations or conclusions, but although raising awareness of the technologies—such as tracking apps—that are available to assist women and girls would be a welcome step, it would not address the problem. In addition, developing “credible” guidance for women and girls on what to do if they feel unsafe is not an unhelpful measure, but it will take us only so far.

The reason that I made an intervention on the minister about the survey that was undertaken in 2000 was to highlight the fact that these are not new issues and that we must not reinvent the wheel. That survey, which was carried out between July 1999 and May 2000, resulted in the development of guidance and a checklist to assist central and local government transport policy makers to ensure that a number of basic requirements would be built into the formulation and development of policy, including that issues affecting women should form part of mainstream consideration.

I would be happy to do so, but I am probably running out of time.

I accept that point, but what I have been trying to get a better understanding of is whether the recommendations and guidance that were made back then have been implemented over the past two decades. We know, for example, that that work said clearly that surveillance and technology must be supported by “appropriate staffing” and that technology was “not a solution in itself”. Now, in this century, more than 200 rail stations—around 60 per cent of the total in Scotland—are unstaffed and, in the West Scotland region, which I represent, just a third of all rail stations are deemed to be fully accessible, based on Transport Scotland’s methodology.

The Scottish Government’s transport policy identifies that

“Many women and disabled people feel vulnerable when using public transport”.

We have had numerous contributions on how that has an impact. Despite that, the reality is that the Scottish Government’s proposals have been to cut back on services and staffing levels across the railways, and we know from our constituency experience about the cancellation of bus services. Today, the Scottish Government still refuses to rule out cuts to existing ticket office hours. I ask the minister to rule out staffing cuts before the national conversation starts. We need to invest in and expand our public transport systems.

I am very grateful to the minister if she is ruling that out today.

As the minister has said, the harassment of women is a systemic problem and one that is particularly prevalent on public transport. We agree with that assessment. We think that that has been made clear across the chamber today; by women and girls in surveys; by women’s groups; and by workers and trade unions. However, we also think that the problem cannot be addressed without significant investment in staffing and infrastructure.

I commend the minister for raising the issue. I am pleased by the commitments that she has made today on staffing levels, on which there will undoubtedly be further discussion, and I commend her for commissioning the report.

I encourage all parties to agree to Scottish Labour’s amendment. By ensuring that our stations, carriages and platforms are accessible and well staffed, we will ensure that women and girls feel safe and comfortable in using public transport in Scotland.

The minister has outlined fully the problems. In 2000, Sarah Boyack MSP, who was then the Minister for Transport and the Environment, undertook a similar survey on personal safety for women on transport, and research and guidance were agreed. Was that guidance used when the ScotRail tender was prepared, for example?