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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 June 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

I go back to the issue with the duty of candour. The bill would require all officers to adhere to that duty, but it would also apply to the 6,000 or so civilian staff. Unison has explicitly said that, if that were the case, it would immediately seek a pay rise for every single one of its members involved. I wonder, therefore, whether you are going to pursue that requirement in respect of non-police officer staff, and how much it will potentially cost. Has that cost been factored into the £5.8 million?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

So there is no plan to change direction—the duty of candour in the bill will apply to civilian staff, and that will not be changed.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

So Unison, in taking its position, has perhaps misunderstood the legislation.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Is there a technical reason why you cannot do it, or are you opposed to the suggestion that the PIRC should be answerable and accountable to the Parliament?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

It might be, but Dame Elish called for a change in status in the legislation, and that is not happening.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

The Finance and Public Administration Committee raised concerns about the bill’s cost, which is projected to have risen from £1.4 million to £5.8 million—possibly higher. I have read the Official Reports of finance committee meetings, and it seems that we are a bunch of softies compared to it, during its recent exchanges with you.

The finance committee convener said that the Scottish Government provided the committee with

“figures that it knew were completely inaccurate.”—[Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 7 May 2024; c 52.]

He wrote to the Presiding Officer on 16 April to say that the Scottish Government had known for six months that the figures were out of date, but that it did not tell the committee. That is quite a charge. How do you respond to that and how can we trust the new figure of £5.8 million?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

What about the specific charge that the Government had known that for six months and did not tell the committee?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Russell Findlay

HMICS takes a different view. It believes that the PIRC should have that power and, furthermore, that that power should also be given to the SPA. That would give officers in Scotland the option of going to the PIRC or the SPA. It sounds as though you are more minded not to go down the route of making the PIRC a prescribed organisation.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Sections 2 and 3 of the bill relate to the code of ethics and the duty of candour. You are supportive of those for both police officers and staff. Does that include all staff?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Russell Findlay

Sorry to interrupt—so that would be to give an officer more options.