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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 November 2025
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Displaying 2264 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I had wanted to explore some of the engagement with staff, but I think that we have done so already, which has been helpful.

I have only one other question outstanding. Liam, in your evidence, you said there was an impending organisational vacuum with large-scale changes taking place without the planning or resources necessary to manage them safely or fairly. Can you tell us what you mean by “organisational vacuum”?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I will ask about some of the powers in the bill around finance, accountability and fair work.

In your submissions, you have all highlighted concern about the SFC’s powers undermining academic freedoms. Everyone has picked up on that point, which we need to consider.

Nicola Jackson, you said that you support financial oversight of post-16 institutions, but that it must be linked to fair work outcomes and public accountability. Mary Senior, your submission highlighted that it is important to ensure that all education providers that receive public funds meet national standards for quality, accountability and employability practices.

With that in mind, my question concerns the proposals that are included in the bill around the monitoring and reporting of matters relating to the financial sustainability of post-16 education bodies. To what extent do you think that the proposed powers could improve the SFC’s ability to identify at-risk institutions, for example, and how might the proposals be further strengthened?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Does the bill need to be strengthened to do that? Mary Senior pointed out that we might want to wait until the Pamela Gillies report concludes in relation to responsibilities, but do you have any sense of what is needed to strengthen that accountability?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I thank the panel for the evidence that they provided in advance and the evidence that they have given today.

Paul, I want to explore with you the concerns that we have heard in our inquiry, but also in other areas and other spaces, about the winding down of the board. What has been communicated to you and the members of the board, and what has been communicated to employer and apprentice voices, during the transition?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I presume that, if the structural changes that the bill proposes remain, you will be included in the committees and the proposed employer network within the SFC. How would that affect you?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Other issues have dominated the past year or so in addition to institutions’ concerns about funding. There have also been concerns around governance, practice and fair work. Could any changes be made through the bill to strengthen the role of providers in the skills delivery landscape, including colleges and universities, around fair work and accountability for it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you. Other members will unpick that point further.

Mary Senior, did you want to come in?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Has the minister or the Government explained to you the rationale for the previous position, which was that they would wind you down, or the current position, which is that you will stay until we have gone through a transition period, with the bill now talking about a new version of you?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Which parts of SAAB would need to be replicated in the legislation to preserve what you say is the success of the model?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

As you say, SAAB is an independent group. How could the bill preserve that? Should there be changes to the governance structure of the SFC to take account of it? Should the SFC have a duty to support and engage with a network such as SAAB? Would that be the solution?