Chamber and committees

That is really helpful.

I will move on to a question about procedures. The submissions from Stonewall and the Equality Network note concerns that section 8U(1)(c) allows for the registrar general, by regulations, to make provision for or about

“information or evidence to be included in an application”.

Could you tell us more about your concern? Should that provision be in primary legislation? I find it odd that it is to be in regulations. What should we do about that concern?

Good morning, panel. Thank you for all the evidence that you have provided so far this morning and the information that you shared in advance of the meeting. As I said to the other panel, a lot of what we are hearing is just horrific and I cannot imagine what it is like to have to deliver these services and, indeed, to experience the sort of direct experiences that you have described. It is just horrific.

I have a couple of questions that bring together themes 1 and 3, and I will direct them at Mental Health UK and VOX Scotland. We know—and much of the evidence that we have received acknowledges—that mental health issues and debt issues are related. You have touched on some of this already, but what does that mean for the delivery of services? How can we break the link between mental health issues and debt, and what specific actions can the Government in Scotland take to identify people who will need that additional support?

If it is okay, I would like to direct those questions to Zahra Hussain and Wendy McAuslan.

We have had evidence that around 60,000 people got into debt for the first time during the pandemic; what does that tell us about the picture of poverty in Scotland, and what does that mean for how services are delivered and for solutions to the issue? In your submission, you call for a more joined-up data sharing scheme for support services and affordable credit. Could you explain a bit about what happens now and what a more joined-up scheme would look like? Finally, people do not have enough money to pay for essentials. As has already been said, even bankruptcy is a temporary solution. What specific action could we take in Scotland on that and to address the cost of living crisis?

What could we do with the powers that we currently have in Scotland to make the situation better?

I am keen to ask about the current landscape of services. I will direct my questions to SAMH and the Money and Mental Health Policy Institute. What is your understanding of the funding environment in which those organisations are working? Has that environment had an impact on their ability to provide mental health and debt support? That also relates to debt advisers’ role in providing mental health support; it works both ways.

As you know, the breathing space mechanism in England is slightly different from our moratorium. Could we and should we extend the moratorium in Scotland to ensure that creditors do not contact people at all and that it lasts for a longer period—for as long as someone is experiencing crisis?

Convener, in the interests of time, I will roll in one of my other questions, as it would sit more appropriately in this theme.

Good morning. I am sorry that I am not there in person. I thank the witnesses for their submissions to the inquiry—they have been incredibly helpful—and for the evidence this morning, some of which is incredibly hard to hear. I cannot imagine how hard it is to deliver those services, so I say a massive thank you to them for that too.

I have a couple of questions for Sarah-Jayne Dunn, and then a couple for Peter Kelly.

Last week, we heard about what is, to be honest, an horrific operating environment for some citizens advice bureaux advisers, and about what they have to deal with as a result of a lot of the things that you have explained this morning. We heard that they are completely burnt out—and someone said that their staff worry about some of the same issues as the people they give advice to, which shows the depth and change in nature of poverty and debt in Scotland. What is your understanding of that environment? Can you tell us a little bit more about the experience of your advisers?

I also have a question for you on something slightly different. I will ask it now in the interests of time. We know that digital exclusion prevents people from accessing some services. During the previous evidence session we heard that, during the pandemic, mobile phone companies let people access the NHS without using their data. Would it help the clients you work with if they were able to access specific websites without using their mobile phone data allowance? If so, which websites should they be able to access?

Not on this theme, convener, but I have a couple of questions on other themes. Would you like me to ask them now or to come back in if there is time?

Good morning to the committee, the cabinet secretary and all those who have joined us in the public gallery.

I will start by moving the amendments in my name, in case I forget at the end. I move amendments 4A, 4B, 13 and 14 in this group—