Chamber and committees

Amendment 147 would require the Government to collect better data on gender recognition certificates and in relation to the legislation. It takes the best practice that I have been able to find from the Irish, Maltese and Victorian legislation and from the Ministry of Justice in relation to UK models, and it will ensure that future policy will be served by better evidence than will be found through the current drafting of the bill. On that basis, I encourage members to vote for amendment 147.

I move amendment 147.

Thank you for that answer. I take the point about the need for a system that is proportionate. No one wants to publish information about individuals, given that we are talking about small numbers. I appreciate that that is a concern.

However, when we talk about the impact of the bill, particularly in relation to how it interacts with the Equality Act 2010, it is important that we can understand that. There are concerns about the interaction with the Equality Act 2010. If we do not assess the impact, people with concerns will never know whether their concerns have come to pass, and people who think that there is no need for concern will never know whether they were right not to have concerns. It is important that we do all that we can to collect information on that so that the public can have confidence in what the bill is trying to do.

I will support many amendments in this group because review on impact is key. Like my colleague Jamie Greene, I may not always share some of the concerns, but it is incredibly important that we properly scrutinise the impact of the legislation.

I will support the amendment to section 2 in Claire Baker’s name because it is rightly more comprehensive than amendment 76. I will abstain on amendments 148 and 143, because I had asked the member to consider that the timescales are quite short after royal assent, and I will vote against amendment 155, because it would delay the act, and trans people have waited a long time for this. Otherwise, I support the amendments in the group.

Amendment 145 aims to ensure that Parliament considers how the process outlined in the bill is working, including in terms of the role of the registrar general and section 22. It also requires ministers to consider whether there should be provisions for non-binary people, as we know that not including them has been a concern for many.

Amendment 146 in my name ensures that we consider properly the impact—unintended or otherwise—of the act. Scottish Labour knows that people have concerns, including on how the act interacts with protections in the Equality Act 2010, the disclosure of protection information and other areas. Some have also raised concerns about the impact on gender identity healthcare, as we have heard, so the amendment requires the Government to look at all of that.

Lastly and importantly, some people are concerned that legal challenges will be brought in relation to the bill and the Equality Act 2010. The amendment seeks to monitor that as well. In short, the amendment is designed to scrutinise many areas of concern in the bill so that, should they come to pass, Parliament can address them.

Thank you for that, Sheena. It echoes some of what Rachel Cackett said and paints a pretty grim picture of what is going on.

I want to ask Frank McKillop and Andrew Ewen about the experience of their members from a service user point of view as opposed to a provider point of view. Can you both say something about that and about what we need to do now rather than in the longer term?

Good morning, minister, and good morning to your officials. I am pleased that you have referred to the fact that we cannot wait but need to take some measures now, and I am not at all surprised to hear that disabled people and their organisations are urging change as soon as possible. I remember being involved in asking the Scottish Government to address social care 15 years ago. To say that there has been incremental change since then is probably an understatement.

There are a number of problems right now. Disabled people are getting so few hours of care and support that they are having to choose between using those hours to go shopping, to pay their bills—with someone there to help them—or to have a shower. That is the reality that disabled people are facing right now. As regards carers who are working in the sector and living on poverty pay, the minister has mentioned that there have been two pay increases, but that has not been enough, and carers are leaving the sector to work in supermarkets instead, because the pay is better there. That is leaving people without the care and support that they need.

Which parts of the problems that I have just outlined is the minister going to address now, instead of waiting until the national care service is developed?

The problems that have been outlined about postcode lotteries, and the need for a national approach to what people can expect, are not new, and I share the characterisation of those concerns. However, I do not share the Government’s characterisation of the situation as one in which it does not have any accountability or responsibility for that. People who receive services for social care, or people who work in social care, should not be expected to have to go to multiple doors and multiple agencies to get answers. I am afraid that, actually, the buck stops with the minister. I therefore hope that there will be a mechanism in the here and now, as well as in the future, for people to hold the system to account.

The other point that I want to make—after which I will get to my question—is that, although I am pleased that the issue of sectoral bargaining has been raised, there is nothing whatsoever in the bill about it. That is giving serious concerns to various people across the sector, such as trade unions and third sector organisations. It would therefore be good to hear that the bill will include a commitment to collective bargaining.

I have one final question, convener—you will not need to come back to me if I ask it now.

I am pleased to hear that sectoral bargaining is on the agenda, and I press the minister to give an absolute commitment to it, because I know that a number of people are seriously concerned that, as a result of this process, we will go backward rather than forward on fair work. A firm commitment on that would therefore be helpful.

It could be one person’s view that a framework bill is flexible and another person’s view that, because there is no detail, people cannot have confidence in what it will deliver. In that regard, I am interested in human rights. Two specific rights are in the bill, but neither of them relates to article 19 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. I heard what the minister said about the forthcoming human rights bill, but we cannot have a situation in Scotland in which we have one overarching human rights bill that governs everything and all of the services. We also have to look at how we implement human rights through different parts of Government, including in the national care service. Will the minister therefore commit to putting the right to independent living in the bill? How will human rights be delivered for the people who use the national care service and those who work in it?

It might be self-evident, but are the retention and recruitment issues largely to do with pay and conditions, or are there other factors?

Sheena Arthur, could you respond to the same question and tell us about the situation in Glasgow for your members?

Thank you. Do you have anything further—