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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 September 2025
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Displaying 5872 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Councillors’ Remuneration and Expenses (Recommendations)

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Thank you for that clarification. It is helpful to get that. As you say, we do not have an understanding of how that was defined for 2005 and it is good to get clear what the public purse should be funding.

I am trying to frame my question. Much of what is included in the sample role outlines would have been familiar to councillors 20 or 30 years ago. I am interested to understand what councillors are doing now that they were not doing before. You have covered this to some degree, but is there anything else that you think they were not doing at the time of the last review in 2011, but are doing now? You have touched on quite a lot of things.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Councillors’ Remuneration and Expenses (Recommendations)

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Thank you very much. We will turn to questions. We will operate your mics. We will direct our questions to Shona Morrison, who can then bring in Steven Heddle or Brianna Fletcher—that is the simplest way to go about it.

I have a couple of questions to get us going. I am interested to hear COSLA’s views on the role profiles and the workload calculations that are included in the SLARC report. Do you have any thoughts about the change in the role of the councillor? A point that came up in the previous session is that it has become more complex over the past 10 years.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Councillors’ Remuneration and Expenses (Recommendations)

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I will bring in Colin Beattie on another topic—information gathering by SLARC.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Councillors’ Remuneration and Expenses (Recommendations)

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I take your point about not equating the role with hours necessarily, but I want to ask a further question. In 2005, the first SLARC report found that councillors worked 32 hours per week on average. The most recent report says that the average is now about 29 hours. I am interested to hear what evidence you found that the workloads and responsibilities of councillors have increased over the years.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Councillors’ Remuneration and Expenses (Recommendations)

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

The next item on our agenda is to take evidence on the Scottish Local Authorities Remuneration Committee’s recommendations for councillors’ remuneration and expenses from Angela Leitch, who is the committee’s convener, and from Peter Argyle, Rosie Docherty, Martin McElroy and Laura Simpson, who are all members of the committee, which is otherwise known as SLARC. I welcome the witnesses to the meeting and invite Angela Leitch to make a short opening statement.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Councillors’ Remuneration and Expenses (Recommendations)

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Although I said that I would come to Shona Morrison first, I will pick up this question with Steven Heddle because it is relevant to what he was talking about. SLARC has stated that the role of a councillor should continue to be fulfilled part time, but from what Steven Heddle said—and Shona Morrison said previously—is that the appropriate description for the role?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Councillors’ Remuneration and Expenses (Recommendations)

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I will pick up another question about barriers. We touched on it earlier in the session, but I am interested to understand a bit more detail on the evidence that you found about pay being a significant barrier to potential candidates, particularly women, people with disabilities, lone parents and young people.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Councillors’ Remuneration and Expenses (Recommendations)

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

That is super. Thanks so much for that overview. Certainly, it was helpful to hear the breadth and depth of the work that you did and where you went to find the evidence of the situation that we face. We have a number of areas that we want to explore and I will begin with councillor workload and responsibility. However, before I do, I want to declare an interest: I have a brother who is a serving councillor. I just want to get that on the record.

There is an assumption in public life that being an MP or an MSP is a full-time job. I am interested to understand why a local councillor job is not considered full time, when the demands on councillors are, at times, at least on par with demands on parliamentarians.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Councillors’ Remuneration and Expenses (Recommendations)

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I am sorry Colin, but I will have to ask you to wind up because we are quite tight for time with our next panel.

It has been a very interesting piece of deep questioning. I have a question about social media and boundaries and possible training for councillors to understand that they do not need to be available 24/7. It sounds inappropriate that people are contacting councillors late at night and they feel that they have to respond. Maybe there is something there that we need to look at. Certainly, we will take note of the need for that formal data set. That could be useful for us. I can see that you have identified quite a lot of strands of work.

10:00  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Councillors’ Remuneration and Expenses (Recommendations)

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

It is important to keep that hybrid option, but it is also a good approach to encourage a meeting where people can imagine seeing most of the people on their committee or whatever. Gordon MacDonald is joining us online and has a couple of questions.