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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 November 2025
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Displaying 6051 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

That is an interesting point. There is lots of detail that we could dig into, but, on a general level, it has been helpful to get a positive response from you on that issue.

That concludes our questions, although I could ask more, so rich has the conversation been. Thank you very much for your contributions.

As the committee previously agreed to take the next items in private, that concludes the public part of the meeting.

10:53 Meeting continued in private until 11:30.  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Decisions on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Thank you.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Fulton MacGregor is with us. He has always been with us, but we have had a bit of a technical issue in getting him up on the screen and getting his microphone turned on. It is good to see you, Fulton. If you want to come in on anything—[Interruption.] His image is gone, so I will keep talking and hope that he is still there. Is there anything that you want to pick up on workforce issues, Fulton? If you could then ask your remaining questions, that would be great. No? Okay, then I will pick up those questions.

We are interested in understanding—in the context of transformation, but it is connected to the workforce—the need for training in digital literacy to ensure that our workforce is capable of navigating changes and challenges. I hear the backdrop of suspicion that is out there, but, AI aside, there are tremendous opportunities with digital literacy. I wonder what your thoughts are on that.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Yes, Fulton—we covered that area sufficiently. We bottomed that one out, I would say. If you could move on to collaboration and involvement in the public service reform board, that would be brilliant.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

That is great. We have been talking about collaboration. The idea came out of the work on the Christie commission that we need to move towards a more joined-up approach with collaboration across agencies.

Maureen, you said that you did not have any solutions. Let us pull back from IJBs and community planning partnerships specifically and think about your experience. What do we need to do more of to get genuine collaboration? What is happening? Are there skill sets that fall under collaboration? Do we need to support people to recognise that giving up their own corner and stepping in leads to something better, which is ultimately what we are trying to do with public service reform? You might not have an idea now, but you could come back to us on that.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

I know what you mean about feeling that there is another level. I have certainly had that feeling when I have been involved in a discussion and, at a certain point, it has felt as though the decision has been made somewhere else.

I want to drill down a bit on the issue that Fulton MacGregor raised. Is Unison or another trade union involved in the Scottish Government’s public service reform board? Are you aware of that?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

I am glad that I asked the question, because a four-day working week would seem to be a positive response to the issues of sickness and recruitment and retention, which Alexander Stewart asked about. If we move to a four-day working week, as well as making it more appealing for people to come in, that could help with the sickness issue, because it would enable people to get some proper downtime. As you said, people’s work-life balance also comes into play.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

The second item on our agenda is an evidence session as part of our pre-budget scrutiny. I remind everyone that the committee has agreed to focus on public service reform. This is the third of our evidence sessions. Today, we are joined by Maureen Dickson, regional organiser, and John Mooney, also a regional organiser, both from Unison. I welcome you to the meeting. There is no need for you to operate your microphones—we will do that for you.

We will just throw our questions out and one or other of you can pick them up. I will start. We have three themes to go through: budget and funding trends; workforce issues; and the approach to transformation.

So far in our evidence sessions, we have heard that, off the back of the Verity house agreement and the conversations around that, ring fencing has decreased. We also hear that, off the back of the United Kingdom Government’s spending review, multiyear funding could be an option in the upcoming budget. I am interested to hear about what you have seen in terms of that change in ring fencing and the potential for multiyear funding. Who wants to pick that one up first?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Anyone who wants to develop anything needs to be looking at the four NPF4 policies that Adam mentioned and the new-build heat standard, and then they should be moving towards carbon emission reduction.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

No member has indicated that they would like to contribute to a debate. Would you like to sum up, minister?