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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 November 2025
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Displaying 6051 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Hang on a minute. I have one as well. Fulton, do you want to continue with that line of questioning or do you want to move on? We have supplementary questions on collaboration.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Let us hold off on doing that for now and put the supplementary questions on collaboration. Alexander, do you want to come in? I might have something to put to the witnesses as well.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Is there something about organisational structures and how different organisations with their different governance structures come together? I also wonder whether there is something about skill sets. Maureen, you mentioned conflict arising at times. Do we have the skill set in the workforce, and maybe coming up through school, that enables people to sit well with conflict and with disagreement—to agree to disagree, essentially. If, ultimately, we are trying to create a more collaborative culture for public service reform, maybe we need to look at skills development and supporting people with negotiating in those spaces.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

That is certainly the case when third sector organisations are run by volunteer boards, as they often are. That is an added layer.

I was going to ask about social care, but you have covered that issue nicely. It was great to hear directly from Maureen about her personal story, because that is one of many stories of families across Scotland.

The fiscal framework has been mentioned a few times in our conversation. I remember the question of who is responsible for the fiscal framework first coming up, after I became convener of the committee, years ago, when Kate Forbes was here as finance secretary. The Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities agreed to work on that as part of the Verity house agreement. Within that framework is the funding formula, and it was pointed out a couple of evidence sessions ago that that is what needs to be addressed. The allocation for each local authority is based on various criteria, but nobody seems to want to address that. I am interested in your thoughts about the fiscal framework in general and about the funding formula.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

That is a really important point. I like that you made the connection between your point that people who are experienced in dealing with social work cases really understand the nuances of such cases and the fact that AI uses a great deal of power. You also connected that point to the need to tackle the climate emergency.

I will bring in Alexander Stewart to ask about workforce issues.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

I believe Fulton MacGregor has some supplementary questions on workforce issues. Fulton, you were going to ask about AI; I think that we have covered that quite sufficiently, but there were some questions on digital literacy, too. If you wanted to pick those up, that would be great. [Interruption.] I hope that Fulton is there—he did indicate that he wanted to come in on this.

We will park that and come back to it. Evelyn, if you could ask your questions, that would be great.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Okay. I see that Fulton MacGregor has joined us again. Fulton, do you want to pick up the questions about collaboration and the union’s involvement in public service reform?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

When we went to Orkney a few years ago, we talked to Orkney Islands Council about the single authority model. It will be interesting to see how that develops there and in the Western Isles. That might help because services would be delivered within one organisational structure. That might make sense for local authorities of that size and scale. However, I totally hear what you say about local democracy, autonomy and so on.

I will bring in Fulton MacGregor to ask a final question and maybe some other things will bubble up. It is a good conversation. Come on in, Fulton.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

All right. That would be interesting to know. Have you been involved in the work on the invest to save fund? A pot of £6 million has been made available for local authorities to bid into. The idea is that, with a bit of money—

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

I have told you about some more doors that you need to go and knock on.

This has been a really good conversation. At the risk of making your jaws drop, I would be interested to hear your thoughts, from a workforce point of view, on a four-day working week. It is a difficult financial climate, but there is a direction of travel on that issue. Is there any hope of us ever getting there? It seems to me that we might not have enough people coming in in the first place to enable us to move to a four-day working week.

Both of you might want to come in on that.