Chamber and committees

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I seek your guidance. The statement on the Scottish Government’s response to the section 35 order judicial review was sent to me at 3.16 pm this afternoon. Ministers’ statements are usually sent in sufficient time to allow MSPs to read them over and scrutinise them before arriving in the chamber. Sending a statement through four minutes before business is scheduled to begin is discourteous to elected members in the Parliament.

Can the Presiding Officer assist me in understanding why the Government is withholding statements from MSPs until the last minute? Does she believe that that is good practice, given that MSPs are restricted from being able to do their job in holding the Government to account?

Presiding Officer,

“We are standing strong. We have deep roots. We can’t be blown over—this is the place where we are grounded.”

Those words will stay with me for a long time, because of a talented Ukrainian artist, Tetiana Hurn. I had the pleasure of meeting Tetiana at the Moira Anderson Foundation in Airdrie when I was invited, along with local MSPs, to see the mural that she hand painted for it.

I thought that the mural would be a section of wall, not a 15m corridor that had been completely transformed into a beautiful woodland scene that creates a sense of calm and tranquillity. The mural, which is now entitled “Spirit of the Forest”, creates a corridor of hope for children and adults who have been affected by childhood sexual abuse. The quote that I read out was written across the top of the woodland scene. When I saw it, I realised that the quote meant just as much to Tetiana as it does to the many people who receive vital support at the foundation. Ukrainian people are strong, they care deeply about their country and they will not be broken by the illegal war that Putin has inflicted on them.

That is why today’s debate is important. We cannot lose sight of the horrors of this war, as Miles Briggs and others highlighted during their speeches this afternoon. Six million people have been displaced, 209,000 have come to the UK and more than 26,000 Ukrainian refugees have arrived in Scotland since the illegal war began.

It is right that we reflect on the support that has been offered so that we can continue to offer a safe place for Ukrainian families to live, learn and work. Many Ukrainians, such as Tetiana, have embedded themselves in communities and have already made such an impact by helping and supporting others and using their skills and talents. Sharon Dowey reiterated that when she applauded families from Ukraine who have come over to Scotland. Alex Cole-Hamilton and Keith Brown reminded the chamber that they opened their own homes when the war began through the sponsorship scheme, helped families to get the support that they needed and, of course, passed on the local lingo of “nae bother”.

We know, however, that the Ukrainian refugee scheme has had its challenges, and it is important that we continue to do more for as long as our friends intend to stay here with us. The cabinet secretary mentioned the collegiate working between local authorities, charities and third-party organisations, and the support that has been implemented to ensure that those who have arrived from Ukraine have access to services, including healthcare and education.

We need to continue to look at the needs of our friends during their time here, and I welcome the cabinet secretary’s intention to look at the real-life experiences of Ukrainian refugees, especially when dealing with the trauma of war and displacement.

Miles Briggs spoke about schools and paid tribute to children who have forged relationships that will lead to many lasting friendships. He also spoke about the Conservative amendment, which raises concerns over current housing issues, specifically about refugees who are stuck in temporary accommodation. There needs to be a focus on that. Although I appreciate that it is outside the cabinet secretary’s brief, the Government must have a focus on driving down the housing waiting lists and ensuring that good, affordable homes are available.

Paul O’Kane mentioned the strength of the cross-party group on Ukraine, which allows MSPs to call for more support and to ensure that we are getting it right for those who have been displaced. The Labour amendment, as it says, seeks to add to the motion the fact that Scots the length and breadth of the country rose to the challenge and welcomed Ukrainians into their homes. We will be supporting the Labour amendment at decision time.

It has been said many times today that, as we approach Christmas, we must remember the people who will be spending this time apart from their families because of the on-going wars and conflicts. As always, my thoughts are with all innocent people who are caught up in those conflicts. That is why I close by reiterating the Scottish Conservatives’ support for the people of Ukraine. We will continue to work across the parties to ensure that Scotland remains welcoming and that we offer a home for as long as it is needed.

We will be voting for the Scottish Government motion and the Labour and Conservative amendments. As Paul O’Kane said at the beginning of his speech, Parliament is at its best when we stand together, so I ask the Scottish Government for a collegiate approach this evening, too.

The cabinet secretary gave no answer on the timeframe and no answer on the amount of money that the bill has already cost the taxpayer.

Opinion poll after opinion poll has shown that the SNP’s gender bill remains unpopular, with each of its provisions, such as letting 16-year-olds change their legal gender, being opposed by a large majority of the public. When it comes to wasting more taxpayers’ money with a potential court appeal, will the cabinet secretary listen to the public and ditch the bill for good, or will she instead be in favour of her Green coalition partners, who want to spend endless amounts of public money on getting the flawed bill enacted?

Many speeches this afternoon began with the sad news about what has occurred on the Bibby Stockholm. I echo the comments that have been made by many members and the calls to investigate what happened.

Today’s debate has been robust. Many contributions have outlined what the Scottish Government can do within devolved competence to improve the lives of asylum seekers in Scotland. The committee’s report outlined many important issues that we have discussed, including the slow rate of processing asylum applications, the financial challenges that asylum seekers face, the current housing crisis, and how local authorities support those who can claim asylum here in Scotland.

There were many points on which members found consensus—and, of course, there were areas of disagreement, whether in relation to reserved powers or to the UK Government’s plan to tackle illegal immigration. The report states that committee members disagreed on the UK Government’s approach to tackling illegal immigration. There is a real human cost when it comes to illegal immigration and the criminal activity that exploits so many vulnerable people. However, I appreciate that the topic is emotive and that it will cause a difference of opinion. I will pick up on some of those points shortly.

When I joined the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, members were concluding the report after taking weeks of evidence on the topic. That is not an ideal time at which to join a committee, because there is a feeling of disconnection from those who gave evidence and shared their personal experiences with committee members. However, what was undertaken produced an important piece of work, which sought to improve the lives of asylum seekers in Scotland. I hope that we can all agree on that.

I also hope that the Scottish Government will start to record data on human trafficking cases in relation to outstanding court backlogs. I was concerned that, recently, in a response to Rachael Hamilton, the Minister for Victims and Community Safety, Siobhian Brown, advised that the Scottish Government currently does not hold that information. Although that was not in the report, I believe that it is crucial to maintain data if we are serious about ending the exploitation of vulnerable people in Scotland.

Members across the chamber raised several points that were in the committee report. The committee convener spoke about the real-life experiences that were crucial to the report, which outlined the challenges that asylum seekers and refugees face. Paul O’Kane echoed that view and highlighted how difficult it must be for people to leave their homes to seek asylum in another country.

Kaukab Stewart mentioned free bus travel for asylum seekers, which is an issue that Paul Sweeney has previously brought to the chamber. The report asks the Scottish Government to develop and report on plans for a Scotland-wide roll-out following the pilot schemes in Aberdeen and Glasgow. I am sure that MSPs will hear more on that when the Scottish Government develops its plans further.

Miles Briggs and Alexander Stewart raised the housing emergency that we currently face in Scotland. We know the number of homelessness applications and the number of children who have been assessed for or threatened with homelessness over the past financial year. Of course, we also know that 6,000 families are stuck in temporary accommodation for more than a year, and 450-plus people have been refused temporary accommodation from 2020 to 2023. I was therefore pleased that the committee’s report sought clarification on the steps that the Government is taking to address the overall housing crisis that we face, because it is urgent. If we want more people to come to Scotland, we need to have affordable homes available. As Alexander Stewart rightly said, the housing crisis has consequences, especially when it comes to hotel accommodation for asylum seekers.

The report discussed the slow rate of processing of asylum seekers. I accept that and agree with colleagues that that must be rectified at haste, not just to alleviate the report’s concerns but to ensure that people are not stuck in the system after fleeing an already difficult and often traumatising situation in another country.

Mental health is another big topic that was raised and debated by many members, and it is a vital part of the wraparound care that the minister mentioned in her opening speech. Services are available for people to access here but, as we know, they are under severe pressure. Although I accept that we need to raise awareness so that asylum seekers can access those vital support networks, we need to ensure that there are no language barriers and that we tackle the challenges that exist across all our mental health services.

I am running out of time. Many other topics were raised today, including the support that local government can provide. However, local government is another area that is under severe financial pressure just now, which restricts the support that it can give to asylum seekers and refugees.

There is clearly a cross-party appetite to do more to help those who claim asylum in Scotland. Like many members who made contributions today, I await updates from the Scottish Government in relation to the report’s recommendations. There has been an important and overarching argument made here today that we need to improve the lives of asylum seekers in Scotland.

That was not really an answer on the timeframe, was it? Scottish National Party ministers were warned on multiple occasions that the gender self-identification bill threatens the protection of women and girls in Scotland. However, the SNP ignored our warnings.

The scandal of the double rapist Isla Bryson proved that predatory men will try to exploit self-identification to gain access to vulnerable women’s spaces, but the SNP ploughed on regardless and took the UK Government to court to get the bill enacted. Does the cabinet secretary think that the £230,000 that was wasted on that court challenge was money well spent?

To ask the Scottish Government whether it plans to appeal the decision of the Court of Session that the United Kingdom Government acted lawfully when enacting a section 35 order in relation to the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. (S6T-01686)

I am not sure that that was the intent. The cabinet secretary was referred to as the spider who was holding the web together. That was in no way meant as an insult; it was actually meant to be complimentary of the evidence that was taken by the committee. If my comment was taken in another way, I think that the member is stretching it, to be perfectly honest.

That brings me back to the point that I was trying to make: the Government holds the web strings for the bill to be a success, but everybody needs to pull together for that to happen. It can be a success only if the Government ensures that young people understand their rights and know how to exercise them.

Local authorities and others have done a power of work already behind the scenes to get ready for the changes that the bill will bring. We need to utilise everyone—not just those who specialise in children’s rights and not just local authorities but our private and charitable organisations that work day in, day out to improve the lives of our young people; our youth work organisations, which will be pillars in the upholding of children’s rights as part of the UNCRC; and parents, who are integral to this journey. I am not sure that we have brought everyone into the UNCRC web yet, but I think that the Government and others can work to do so.

We need to go back to the mess that the Government created at the start of the legislation, because we are not at the stage—

We voted in favour of the principles of the bill, but we also warned the Government—[Interruption.] We also warned the Government on more than one occasion, but those warnings were not heeded. That is on the Scottish Government.

The Scottish Conservatives will be voting in favour of the bill at decision time. I said from the start that the bill is for Scotland’s children and young people, and I look forward to voting in favour of it at stage 3.

Section 15 refers to the reporting duties of listed authorities, whereby listed authorities must report on the action that they have taken or intend to take to secure or further effect the rights of children. The bill as passed labelled the first reporting period as the period beginning with the date on which the section comes into force and ending on 31 March 2023, with further reporting periods ending after every subsequent three years. However, due to the Government’s incompetence with regard to getting the legislation right the first time, the cabinet secretary has been forced to move that date to 2026, which is three years later than was originally planned. [Interruption.]

Had the Scottish National Party got things right almost three years ago, we would already have known—