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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 January 2026
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Displaying 3006 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Stephen Kerr

I return to the substance of the inquiry, which is fundamentally political. The evidence was very clear that the United Kingdom has quite a liberal and permissive constitutional arrangement—flexibility was mentioned frequently. Is it not the truth of the matter that this is about politics, and that if Angus Robertson, Keith Brown and the other nationalists on this committee and in this Parliament want to have another referendum, they have to persuade the majority of the people of Scotland? Is that not what politics is about—a battle of ideas?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Stephen Kerr

On the reset, cabinet secretary, you mentioned a change of tone in rhetoric and public comment, but you also mentioned meetings. The statistics and the facts would seem to suggest that, since the formalisation of IGR structures post 2022, the number of formal meetings has been pretty consistent. According to the briefing that the committee has received, there were 25 meetings between July 2024 and July 2025, which was the first year of the new Labour Government. There were 23 meetings between January and December 2022, but there were 35 between January and December 2023. That shows that there has been an increase in the number of meetings since the inception of the formal IGR structures.

You also mentioned meetings with the Prime Minister. According to the data, the number of formal meetings that the current Prime Minister has had with the First Ministers is about the same number as Rishi Sunak had when he was Prime Minister. What has actually changed?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Stephen Kerr

No. I was taking a leaf out of Keith Brown’s book and making a statement.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Stephen Kerr

And it is ad hoc.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Stephen Kerr

Well—

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Stephen Kerr

—because the disparities that you describe and the unique circumstances of Northern Ireland were well explored by our legal experts and constitutional experts.

In the interest of time, which presses on, I will leave it there. I think that I have made my view clear and I heard the cabinet secretary’s answer to my question. It is a matter of politics and debate, and we are of course about to have an exciting first part of the new year, which will be all about this.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Stephen Kerr

As you have rightly said, there is a different formula and business model for the universities up here, none of which has been considered.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Stephen Kerr

Yes, but what is your view?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Stephen Kerr

He also recommended an independent secretariat.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 18 December 2025

Stephen Kerr

But it is not independent. It is part of the Cabinet Office.