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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 September 2025
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Displaying 2438 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Information Commissioner

Meeting date: 22 February 2024

Stephen Kerr

But culture—

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Information Commissioner

Meeting date: 22 February 2024

Stephen Kerr

I am concerned about how you deal with the immovable object. You mentioned the new head of the civil service in Scotland, John Paul Marks, who is much more amenable to this whole cultural approach than might have been the case previously.

In that respect, I am thinking of the example of James Hamilton. I am not going to ask you to comment on anything specific, but the overall principle was that a member of the public sought an FOI and the whole thing ended up in the Supreme Court, where it was finally disclosed that the Scottish Government had not told the truth about what it did and did not have, and there was then a ruling about what was FOI-able. In fact, there is an update on the matter in today’s newspapers.

I know that you have not commented on this and I will respect however you choose to respond to what I am saying, but I note that, in relation to the possibility of a further appeal to you, the Scottish Government has said that you have

“confirmed the requirements for the decision notice of the Supreme Court have been complied with”.

Do you agree that that sets the stage for tackling the immovable object? What exactly happens in a situation in which you, as commissioner, now have a new definition of what is FOI-able in relation to this specific case but in which the holder of information says that they will not disclose any more information? What exactly do you do, given the limits on your resources?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Information Commissioner

Meeting date: 22 February 2024

Stephen Kerr

Have they done a review?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Information Commissioner

Meeting date: 22 February 2024

Stephen Kerr

How many freedom of information requests did you say there had been? Was it 80,000?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Information Commissioner

Meeting date: 22 February 2024

Stephen Kerr

I would love to know how many are repeated follow-ups because people did not ask the right question and were answered absolutely on the terms of the question that they asked, so they think, “I’ve got to ask another question,” in the same way as they might interrogate Google.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Information Commissioner

Meeting date: 22 February 2024

Stephen Kerr

Exactly. What you are really saying is that everybody in every avenue of public service should be responsible for the management of the information within their remit.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Information Commissioner

Meeting date: 22 February 2024

Stephen Kerr

I think it had to do with the fact that public—

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Information Commissioner

Meeting date: 22 February 2024

Stephen Kerr

I mentioned procurement, given that so much of public service delivery is now done by commercial operations. That is all well and good, but there is a limit to how much information commercial operations are liable to provide on a FOI basis, if any at all.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Information Commissioner

Meeting date: 22 February 2024

Stephen Kerr

You have to be careful that you do not ask the question that you do not necessarily want the answer to. That is a good point.

Another dimension is that, when commercial operations bid to work in the public sector to deliver a public service, they already go through hoops of fire even to be considered as potential providers of that service. On top of that, you have to ladle in all the other costs of what we are describing. There are many dimensions to this.

I think that I have exhausted my well of questions, convener.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Information Commissioner

Meeting date: 22 February 2024

Stephen Kerr

You are targeting the people at the top.