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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 24 May 2025
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Displaying 2256 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

Yes—that would help us all.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

It could be, though. [Laughter.] You should not shy away from taking the credit if that is the case.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

I think that there is an amazing amount of common ground between members of the Parliament on how small changes could bring about dramatic improvements in how we operate.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

If I may make one last point—

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

I am concerned about that happening where the husband and wife are not a package, which is probably the case for the majority of politicians in this Parliament and in other Parliaments. I have a colleague whose wife, because of votes that have been held recently in this Parliament, has been openly threatened because of the way in which he chose to vote on a particular issue.

I wonder whether we should be reviewing the criminal law in relation to protecting candidates, so that people feel that there is at least some deterrent barrier in place that might—I stress “might”—make people think twice about what they say or write. Would you have any sympathy with that line of thinking?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

I have a short follow-up question, because the word “culture” was mentioned and I have always been interested in organisational culture. Some kind of culture change seems to be happening among the ministers and the spads as well as within the civil service. Is that a fair comment?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

It is interesting that, in the Scottish Information Commissioner’s report, the commissioner basically says that it is a game of two halves. Up to spring this year, there was not a very good record at all. In fact, I think that you used the word “abysmal”. There was a change of Government leadership in spring, and I note with interest that Fiona Hyslop said to the Public Audit Committee—it was widely reported—that official record keeping, by which I assume she means on the part of ministers, spads and others, has improved compared with when she was last in Government, which was under the previous First Minister. What exactly has changed?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

Right.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

I completely agree with you, convener, and I agree with the minister. Cultural change happens because of leadership—it takes leadership. I think that the new permanent secretary has been in place from around the time when the improvements began to become apparent. However, there is a long way to go. We acknowledge that there has been some improvement, but there is a long way to go on perhaps more strictly conforming adherence to the need for proper records to be kept in Government.

My concern about freedom of information, which I ask the minister to comment on, is that, when record keeping becomes a core function of the civil service and ministers see that appropriate records are kept—that is a very topical issue, and we will not engage with any of those topical issues; I have just been reminded not to engage with any of them—there is a danger that some information that ought to be recorded in documented records will no longer be recorded because it will be presented in a different way and not captured by the civil service requirement to record the information. I do not know whether the minister shares that concern. Does that make sense? That was very convoluted. I am simply concerned that some things will no longer be there because FOI and enhanced record keeping will mean that some of those conversations will simply disappear into the ether.

I did not mention deleted WhatsApp messages there.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

The issue is about the advice that is being given. I think that the convener was going in this direction, too. Spads were specifically mentioned. The general discussion about how the three options are arrived at should be a matter of ministerial record, too.