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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Current session: 14 May 2026 to 1 November 2026
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Displaying 346 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Custodial and Community Sentences

Meeting date: 30 September 2026

Stephen Kerr

The people who I want to protect and, ultimately, the people who are at the centre of my concern, are the victims. I do not want the victims to become easy to disregard in this. You talk about Hobson’s choice. You think, “We have a problem here, another here and another here—the system does not work. Therefore, we’re going to release these people back into the community, even though we know the community justice system doesn’t work properly.”

I am going to take the heat off you for a minute, Karyn, because you are getting all the questions. Jackie Hamilton said something earlier that set alarm bells ringing for me in relation to my concern for victims, given the current direction of policy and the weakness of the system. Jackie said that we have to be careful that we do not measure reoffending as the ultimate thing. Why not? We want to get people out of the justice system and back into—

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Custodial and Community Sentences

Meeting date: 30 September 2026

Stephen Kerr

But you said “ultimately”. Surely, the ultimate thing must be that we help people to get out of the system.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Custodial and Community Sentences

Meeting date: 30 September 2026

Stephen Kerr

Thank you for being absolutely transparent in that answer, because clearly that is a problem. If we are going to put more pressure on the system and we do not deal with the geographic fragmentation and uneven distribution of services, we are failing victims and the people who are the offenders.

The third area that is mentioned in the Audit Scotland report is data and the ability to measure outcomes. Five years on, that has not got any better.

Convener, I can feel you breathing down my neck.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Custodial and Community Sentences

Meeting date: 30 September 2026

Stephen Kerr

He is very indulging as a convener.

Tell me about those numbers, Karyn. I wrote them down and thought, “What does that mean?” That is not a lot of money.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims’ Perspectives

Meeting date: 30 September 2026

Stephen Kerr

That is a proactive violence reduction initiative. What about community justice? Do you have good examples of places where that is really working? Please share.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims’ Perspectives

Meeting date: 30 September 2026

Stephen Kerr

Does the good practice depend on geography? Will you name somewhere that works really well, please?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Custodial and Community Sentences

Meeting date: 30 September 2026

Stephen Kerr

I was going to say that I have a lot of sympathy for you, but that word sounds patronising, so forgive me. You have a very difficult job, because you do not have any levers to pull, do you?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Custodial and Community Sentences

Meeting date: 30 September 2026

Stephen Kerr

So, can they not do it, then?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims’ Perspectives

Meeting date: 30 September 2026

Stephen Kerr

An erosion?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims’ Perspectives

Meeting date: 30 September 2026

Stephen Kerr

What are those barriers, and what are those silos that organisations are operating in? Why do they exist after all this time? We have been talking about this forever in Scotland. Why have we still got those?