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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 April 2026
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Displaying 3402 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Yes, of course.

10:30  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Thereby hangs a tale. We have a system and a structure. It is looking through a glass darkly, to use a biblical phrase. Can we go to Hedydd Phylip? I hope that I am pronouncing your name properly, Hedydd.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

If they can agree anything.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Andrew Dunlop’s review reported in 2022, and my reading of it was that the hinge upon which the structure would work, which would determine how the meetings would be conducted in terms of qualitative control as well as their frequency, was going to be an independent, outside secretariat. However, as has been touched on, the current secretariat is inside the Cabinet Office of the UK Government. An independent secretariat doing the work to make this happen has not been delivered.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Well, not really, because the LCMs that were contested here and in Cardiff were all Brexit related, and in both Parliaments the majority of people were unprepared to accept the result of the referendum. I think that we are comparing apples and oranges if we say—

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

I am not sure about that, if I am honest with you, Hedydd.

Can I broaden the discussion out and bring in Dr Grau Creus on the Dunlop review of intergovernmental relations, which was published in 2022? The work was done before 2019—it was set up by Theresa May. Why have the recommendations of that review not been fully implemented, especially in respect to the secretariat? I think that that is the hinge issue in terms of transparency, the frequency of meetings, the quality of meetings and parliamentary scrutiny. Why has that not happened?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Governments count on the fact that few people are watching and listening, but that is exactly what we are here to do, as you know.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

It is perceptive that you say that, because central to the Dunlop review was the secretariat but also a dispute resolution mechanism.

I will ask the others to comment on the Dunlop review. To me, we now have a structure, but we do not have frequency of meetings, we do not have train tracks and we do not have a rail timetable. What we have is a schematic outline of something that happens when someone decides somewhere that we will have a meeting. That does not seem terribly satisfactory if we want a joined-up and mature process of intergovernmental working.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

I put it to you that they are not meeting very regularly. I have the numbers here. Some of these committees have met only once, including—astonishingly—the interministerial group on UK-EU relations. We have to be careful that we do not get caught up with the surface veneer of what we are being told. In reality, nothing has changed.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Excellent. That is the Welsh blood in me.