Chamber and committees

Yes—of course we collect data. The public sector equality duty places the duty of data collection on bodies that provide services, and age is one of the data sets that we collect. The challenges, of course, include addressing depopulation, which is part of my portfolio. I have visited areas across Scotland that are suffering from depopulation and I see the impacts that that can have on what are often very small communities, where even losing one family can have a significant effect. Age is important across the board, from how many youngsters we have right through to the ageing population.

We know that Scotland has an ageing population. That brings additional challenges in areas such as health and social care, transport and independent living. It also reaches into other areas, such as the provision of social security safety nets and the need to address fuel poverty and look at accessible housing. It all fits together, and data is important in that regard. However, we must remember that data is people and we cannot just go by numbers. Sometimes you cannot extrapolate a trend because the data set is quite small. Therefore, we need to be aware of the demographic challenges and people’s lived experience through hearing about that via community engagement.

I do not know whether Anna Densham has anything further to add on the specifics of data collection. Please feel free to comment if you think that I have missed anything, Anna.

We do collect data.

That is a good question. I have said on the record to the committee previously that I take seriously my responsibilities as Minister for Equalities to promote mainstreaming and provide support and challenge to my colleagues at Cabinet and ministerial level. I think that I have maybe just one or two colleagues who, due to diary commitments, I have not yet met, but that shows the extent of the progress that I have made since I first appeared in front of the committee to say that that is what I was promoting.

That has allowed me to get an overarching view of the connections across portfolios and to highlight those connections to my colleagues. Colleagues are very much aware of the cross-cutting themes. When I am trying to promote equality impact assessments and to raise their quality and embed them, that has helped a great deal. It has enabled me to not only look at overarching policy but to inform my colleagues so that, when they make decisions, they are considering those issues early on and bearing in mind all the cross-cutting themes such as housing. I have had good conversations with the cabinet secretaries responsible for rural areas such as the Highlands and Islands to highlight the mainstreaming agenda.

I hope that that gives the committee reassurance that that work has progressed very well. We should remember that this our first time doing this, so we are doing things differently.

Our response to the SHRC was issued in May. We appreciate the work that the SHRC does and welcome its spotlight approach in raising the issues. The report clearly demonstrates the importance of all levels of government sustaining progress to advance people’s experience of human rights in rural and island communities. Our response, which we issued in May, outlined the breadth of work that was already under way across the areas that were raised in the report. Our response also set out the actions that we are taking, or are planning to take, on each of the report’s eight recommendations.

As I said in my opening remarks, I fully accept that there is more work to be done, but we are committed to working collaboratively across the public sector to ensure that we achieve our aim of making sure that everybody, regardless of where they live, has their human rights respected and fulfilled.

I know that the SHRC called for all relevant duty bearers to pay heed to its report, and we echo and fully support that call. People should be cognisant of it in designing and delivering public services for our rural communities. We will continue to work constructively with the SHRC, and other stakeholders, on the issues that were raised in the report and, more importantly, to implement the changes that are necessary to ensure further progress.

It was both. Part of my responsibility is to remind, support and challenge regarding the Equality Act 2010 and our public sector equality duty. We were able to discuss some issues that had been raised with me.

As I said, I fully recognise the distinct challenges that those living in rural areas sometimes face. I particularly recognise that intersectionality can often add a layer of inaccessibility. There is a disproportionate impact in the examples that you have given, and across other protected characteristics. It would be the same for ethnic minorities and disabled people, for instance. I am mindful of that, and the cabinet secretary is very mindful of it, too.

Meaningful engagement with rural stakeholders and communities at an early stage of policy development is absolutely vital. We continue to encourage engagement with rural and island communities across relevant portfolio and policy areas to understand their specific experiences of the issues in their localities—which of course can vary—in order to be able to develop a more flexible and localised approach to delivery. That includes engagement through the Scottish Rural Network and direct consultation with island communities on the new national islands plan.

The islands community impact assessment and the rural assessment toolkit, which was launched in April, encourage that in a systematic way, supporting access to specific islands and rural data and offering channels for engagement where they do not already exist.

If you would like more information on that, I am happy to bring in Anna Densham. Before I hand over, though, I will just agree with your point about the vital role that third sector organisations play. I could not have said it better myself. Third sector organisations are essential. They know their communities. I am aware that around 34 per cent of voluntary organisations are based in rural and remote locations, despite only about 21 per cent of the Scottish population living in those areas. That demonstrates how important they are in those communities, and we absolutely value the essential role that they play. We acknowledge that the sector needs support, stability and the opportunity for longer-term planning. Anna Densham can give you more detail.

Thank you for that. I agree and I am very sympathetic, as we all are in Government. It must be most frustrating. It is equally frustrating for us, because our budget is set on a cycle that comes from the Westminster United Kingdom Government. When that budget settlement is done yearly, it is difficult and challenging for the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government to set multiyear funding. We can make decisions on fair pay, for instance, but then there are decisions at the UK level such as the national insurance contributions increase, which can have an enormous impact. It is incredibly frustrating that the benefits of our decisions cannot always be seen because of decisions that are made elsewhere.

The latest estimates indicate that, across Government, we have invested over £1 billion in the third sector in 2023. Anna Densham talked about the fairer funding pilot, which covers multiyear funding worth £130 million over 2025 to 2027. It is part of our commitment to prioritise and focus on the delivery of front-line services and on tackling child poverty. When you are doing a pilot, you are including more and more organisations that you can support. This is not an exhaustive list but some organisations that are included in the pilot are Scottish Mountain Rescue—it is really important that it is part of the pilot—the Scottish Book Trust, which delivers the Bookbug programme, and the communities mental health and wellbeing fund, which is delivered across Scotland through third sector interfaces.

I acknowledge that it is frustrating, but the pilot is an important first step to mainstreaming multiyear funding agreements across the third sector to balance our ambitions against challenging financial decisions and the landscape that we are working in.

You mentioned women’s aid organisations, Ms Chapman, and I can touch on that. The equally safe strategy specifically recognises that women in small rural and island communities can face particular challenges in relation to all forms of violence against women and girls; abuse can sometimes be even more hidden than in urban areas. To help address those issues, we fund vital support services across all parts of Scotland, including in the rural and island communities, through our investment of £21.6 million a year in the delivering equally safe fund. At least £5.4 million of the delivering equally safe fund is allocated to rural and island communities. That figure excludes rural areas within predominantly urban local authorities, so the actual amount will be higher than that. I hope that that gives some reassurance.

Improvements are being made to the availability and analysis of equality data across the Scottish Government through the equality data improvement programme and the equality evidence strategy for 2023 to 2025. That includes improvements to the collection and analysis of disaggregated and intersectional data across policy areas. Good progress has been seen across the strategy as of July 2025. Of the strategy’s 45 actions, 17 are complete, 20 are in progress and officials are supporting the remainder to be delivered within the strategy period, where possible.

An evaluation of the current equality evidence strategy to examine its impacts, including how the work has improved outcomes, will commence shortly. Work is under way to begin the development of the next equality evidence strategy, which will be done in collaboration with analysts, policy makers and external organisations that are interested in improving equality evidence.

I will come in on that. During my previous appearances in front of the committee, I have emphasised my personal commitment to provide support and challenge across portfolios. As I said in my opening remarks, I have had 14 ministerial meetings so far, and we are now working differently. Governments are set up with departments, and everyone has subject areas while, in the chamber, we have shadow ministers to cover portfolios. It is also about cultural change. As I have said, there needs to be a will to change. We need to take people with us in order to make the change by demonstrating the positive effects that it can have.

That is part of my challenge. If we undertake impact assessments earlier, it will lead to better decision making in the future, especially in these times of fiscal challenge when serious financial decisions must be made. Money is not infinite. Therefore, we need to ensure that we look after the most vulnerable people, as the cabinet secretary says, and see the intersections in how a decision in one portfolio area can affect another.

There is much more to do. That is why having a vision and a bold ambition is important. It gives us a clear trajectory to aspire to. The journey is long and complicated but I assure the committee that we are making good progress along that way.

I will deal with the minimum core requirements. I recall that, when I was convener of the committee, I asked questions of Government representatives regarding the minimum core, so I take a special interest in that.

We understand the minimum core as the most fundamental requirements of social, economic and cultural rights, such as the right to adequate food, housing and healthcare, that every state must uphold at all times, irrespective of resources. The Scottish Human Rights Commission promotes those concepts within the context of a potential human rights bill that will aim to incorporate certain international treaties in domestic law to ensure that everyone in Scotland can access those essential rights.

We understand that minimum core obligations fall into two categories. The first concerns the budget process, in relation to which they include running the process differently, driven by principles of transparency, participation and accountability—I know that the committee has been considering those themes. The second category concerns the budget itself, in relation to which they include demonstrating that the content of a budget—the decisions that are taken about how money is raised, allocated and spent—is in line with human rights obligations. That covers the maximum available resources in particular. Governments are obliged to take steps to progressively realise the rights to the maximum of their available resources. Minimum core obligations are understood to be the minimum protections that Governments should guarantee to everyone.

The human rights discussion paper that was published in July sets out proposals for ministers to run a participatory process to inform the minimum standard of social, economic and cultural rights. One of the actions that was identified in that paper was to develop the thinking on minimum standards and what that participatory process might look like. It might be worth noting that there is no global agreement on minimum core obligations, because they will differ for every nation, depending on the maximum resources that are available. It is new territory, but I can assure the committee that it is being taken incredibly seriously. I hope that that covers that bit of it.

On the decision not to legislate, Tess White quite rightly asked what we were doing in the meantime. As I said, we published the discussion paper. We are implementing the capability building programme to help the public sector and the wider duty bearers with the human rights bill. In the current financial year, we have invested up to about £200,000 to increase the knowledge and understanding of the rights that are proposed for incorporation across local authorities and health and social care providers. We will also engage with organisations’ funding through the equality and human rights fund to facilitate a knowledge exchange on the proposed rights and how to prepare the ground for future duties. Our capability building workshop group is helping to inform the delivery of that work in 2025-26 and beyond.

On making that information on human rights accessible and available, it is vital to allow the rights holders to claim those rights. Working with stakeholders, we will develop plans for information and awareness raising, including a campaign that is aligned with the future timescales for the implementation of human rights. We are developing a toolkit as part of the mainstreaming strategy that will assist with improving competence in that area. That will be an online platform that will have resources and checklists around training, continual professional development and best practice, which means that there will be a lot of practical support. There will be examples to support Scottish Government directorates and the wider Scottish public sector, so that people can evaluate the mainstreaming strategies and human rights priorities and take actions where appropriate.