Chamber and committees

Yes.

Absolutely—thank you.

From memory, we discussed waiting lists, access to maternity services and local hospital provision—those are some of the issues that have been raised with me when out and about. As minister, I take my responsibilities across the board seriously and we are encouraged to visit Highlands and Islands communities to hear about issues first hand. One issue that was raised with me was about access to treatment, the distances that often have to be covered and the challenges that people face. That is an example of the issues that I was able to raise with the cabinet secretary.

In my opening remarks, I acknowledged that organisations that are based in their communities, such as local councils, know what the local issues are. Those issues will vary, depending on the area, the landscape and the different demographics. We know that the skills, knowledge and expertise are there. We are all aware that, when communities are up against it—for example, when they face adverse weather conditions—people rally round, the support kicks in and we see people at their best.

However, I take on board what you say about the fact that the opportunity for more collaborative work to be done is not embedded when it should be. The Scottish Government encourages and supports the taking of a collaborative approach, although we must remember that councils are autonomous. We work in collaboration with them.

The public sector equality duty is in my portfolio, and the committee will be aware that, as part of that work, I am doing my absolute best to make sure that we set an expectation that councils fulfil their duties. As part of fulfilling their duties, they must work in collaboration with third sector organisations that are procured to provide particular services. Everybody needs to talk to one another. In its report, the SHRC encourages that, and we support those calls.

More widely, on 19 June 2025, the Scottish Government published “Scotland’s Public Service Reform Strategy”, in which we set out the detail of our vision and our priorities for reform. As set out in this year’s programme for government, we will publish a blueprint for community decision making by the end of this session of Parliament, which is not too far away. That should help to shape a different democratic future in which communities are further empowered to make more decisions for themselves. It is also worth noting that the Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill, which was introduced in March, is currently going through stage 1 of the parliamentary scrutiny process, which is being led by the Economy and Fair Work Committee.

Therefore, we are providing leadership and leading by example. We are also reminding public bodies about and reinforcing the importance of the equality duties that everybody has. In addition to the legislation that is in progress, there is the public service reform strategy.

The most important voice for measuring success is always the people’s voice. I have always said that a good model to follow is to triangulate everything with lived experience and to make sure that people’s actual experiences match the data and the strategies. That enables progress to be tracked.

People’s lived experiences are extremely important, and they need to be checked against the data. Those experiences might be based on perception, which is equally important. Sometimes, with certain communities, we might be looking at very small cohorts of people, so there needs to be a checking process. I always think that the best model is one in which the policy and the statistical data analysis that goes with it are cross-referenced with lived experience.

I am aware that we do regular surveys, so we might be able to provide some more information on that. I am aware that the Government carries out surveys on rural and island communities in particular. We check in to find out whether there have been any improvements and to hear about people’s experiences.

Is there anything that you wish to add, Anna?

It is important that people work across portfolios. I recognise that there are challenges, and I agree that one size does not and cannot fit all. I have visited projects from Dumfries to Harris, to speak to people and to hear about their real-life experiences, which has been highly informative.

However, I do not agree that the system is broken. I would characterise it as facing profound challenges, the impacts of which can be significant; I do not accept that it is broken.

In relation to the significant challenges that are faced, we have produced the rural delivery plan and the national islands plan. Some people have asked, “Why have two plans? Why not put everything in one plan?” The fact that we have two plans answers your question. It demonstrates that the issues that are faced in the Highlands and Islands can be very different from those that are experienced in rural areas such as Dumfries and Galloway. Although there are similarities, there will be differences—for instance, with the workforce, as well as in relation to access to transport, health and housing. There will be challenges with procurement and with the transportation of people and goods, which can cost a lot more. There are different modes of transport to think about, too—planes and ferries, as well as railways. I accept that the situation is different for everybody.

Like any organisation that has many different departments, the Government will always find it challenging to get people to work together, but I am confident that we are leading by example. Because cabinet secretaries and ministers are working together across portfolios, officials are doing that, too. For example, Trevor Owen is from my human rights portfolio, but Anna Densham covers rural matters and the Highlands and Islands area. Such cross-working already happens.

As you rightly say, when so many different elements rely on one another, there is a challenge in knowing which one should come first. Should it be transport, housing or jobs? The answer is that we need all of those. That is why, when we have strategic plans, they cover all those areas, which is why it is always very challenging to give quick, glib answers. I would love to be able to say, “This’ll fix it,” but even the people who have contributed to your inquiry recognise that it is a complex picture and that everything is interrelated. It takes time to produce systemic plans and to do that well and, over that time, other pressures emerge. I have mentioned the fact that, unfortunately, decisions that are made elsewhere can have an impact on progress.

I understand that people will always ask us to go faster, but I can assure you that that work is on-going.

You make a good point and, as I have said, I share your frustration. I can assure the committee that cross-portfolio and collaborative working is happening, but you will recognise the challenges of the multiple areas that are involved. Of the two plans, one is statutory, of course, but I will bring in Anna Densham to go into the technical detail of both.

Yes—of course we collect data. The public sector equality duty places the duty of data collection on bodies that provide services, and age is one of the data sets that we collect. The challenges, of course, include addressing depopulation, which is part of my portfolio. I have visited areas across Scotland that are suffering from depopulation and I see the impacts that that can have on what are often very small communities, where even losing one family can have a significant effect. Age is important across the board, from how many youngsters we have right through to the ageing population.

We know that Scotland has an ageing population. That brings additional challenges in areas such as health and social care, transport and independent living. It also reaches into other areas, such as the provision of social security safety nets and the need to address fuel poverty and look at accessible housing. It all fits together, and data is important in that regard. However, we must remember that data is people and we cannot just go by numbers. Sometimes you cannot extrapolate a trend because the data set is quite small. Therefore, we need to be aware of the demographic challenges and people’s lived experience through hearing about that via community engagement.

I do not know whether Anna Densham has anything further to add on the specifics of data collection. Please feel free to comment if you think that I have missed anything, Anna.

We do collect data.

That is a good question. I have said on the record to the committee previously that I take seriously my responsibilities as Minister for Equalities to promote mainstreaming and provide support and challenge to my colleagues at Cabinet and ministerial level. I think that I have maybe just one or two colleagues who, due to diary commitments, I have not yet met, but that shows the extent of the progress that I have made since I first appeared in front of the committee to say that that is what I was promoting.

That has allowed me to get an overarching view of the connections across portfolios and to highlight those connections to my colleagues. Colleagues are very much aware of the cross-cutting themes. When I am trying to promote equality impact assessments and to raise their quality and embed them, that has helped a great deal. It has enabled me to not only look at overarching policy but to inform my colleagues so that, when they make decisions, they are considering those issues early on and bearing in mind all the cross-cutting themes such as housing. I have had good conversations with the cabinet secretaries responsible for rural areas such as the Highlands and Islands to highlight the mainstreaming agenda.

I hope that that gives the committee reassurance that that work has progressed very well. We should remember that this our first time doing this, so we are doing things differently.