Chamber and committees

I have thought about that very carefully. It is one of the reasons why we partnered with the STV children’s appeal to distribute the funding, because that organisation already has well-established links and it supports a wide range of organisations. Often, they are very small projects that are based in local community centres. They may hold drop-in coffee mornings or offer sports opportunities. They may offer knit and natter meetings, dancing workshops or arts and crafts. They do all sorts of things. That is not an exhaustive description, but it gives you a flavour of what some of those local groups do. Some are run by two or three people, while other organisations are bigger.

For the organisations that provide those spaces, a little extra money goes a long way. It may pay for bookings in community centres, it may pay for the teas and coffees, or it may pay for staff training so that people can have constructive conversations about issues that are causing tensions within communities. That means that people can discuss those concerns in a constructive manner with people who can support them through that, using a trauma-informed approach. The safe spaces already exist, so this is about enhancing funding for them.

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I am very cognisant that brilliant work is already happening. However, because of the additional challenges that we are facing in fostering good relations in the community cohesion space, the extra funding was required in order to enhance those opportunities and provide more. We are talking about bringing people together so that they can speak to one another and communicate. We know that, the more people get to know one other, the more we dispel the myths and break down the barriers. We can deal with misinformation and disinformation and get into the heart of the communities where people are having those conversations.

I am going to stick with the protocol of the Scottish Government; I am not going to make any comment on any proceedings that are in court.

The fund that you are referring to supports 47 organisations. It is important to emphasise that. We have previously engaged with LGBT Youth Scotland to determine the facts around various media reports. What you are referring to now and what you are presenting to me I have no way of fact checking in live time. It is an organisation that has been in the spotlight and it gets a lot of attention. I have visited the organisation, I have spoken to the users of that organisation, and I have seen first hand the good work that it is doing in supporting young people in various ways. As a constituency MSP, I have also had communications from parents who have been grateful for the work that the organisation has done in increasing awareness, supporting parents, and supporting youngsters. There is a wide variety of work that is going on there.

I have been assured that LGBT Youth Scotland has strengthened its safeguarding policies to ensure that they are in line with legislation and that they meet the national standards. It continues to review those policies annually to make sure that they are as comprehensive as possible.

My answer to that is that I am very much in line with the EHRC on this. We know that robust, good-quality data is important. We know that because we shape our services around that data. We can forward plan based on it and allocate funding. There are lots of good reasons for having that data so absolutely, we need to do that.

We also need to remember that, for the data that we collect, there have to be good reasons for doing so, because people have to offer that data. Nobody could force any one of us in this room to declare anything about ourselves that we do not wish to. When I have filled in the additional forms that go along with recruitment processes, for instance, I know that, on occasion, I possibly have not filled in the bit about which ethnic minority you belong to. We need to make sure that people are engaged in relation to giving their data and know and have confidence that their data will be used appropriately and proportionately for the purpose for which it is collected. That is what I am saying on that just now. I do not know if there is anything else that officials would like to add.

I get what you are saying. We have policing by consent, and I am very pleased that we take that approach through community police officers. As an MSP, in representing Glasgow city centre and Kelvin, I have extensive contact with local police representatives, so I have the opportunity to raise the concerns of my constituents, who sometimes raise the concerns that you have raised. The police are covered by the public sector equality duty, so they must fulfil their duties by having due regard for such issues. Police Scotland is, of course, totally independent.

I will bring in Nick Bland.

Yes. Our intention is always to continue engagement as widely as possible.

It is well known that I concern myself with outcomes. Processes should help to achieve outcomes. They should not be hindering them or be overly cumbersome or difficult to navigate.

We are absolutely committed to advancing equality, and the PSED is an example of the important levers that we have available to us. We are leading by example to inspire other public bodies to put equality front and centre. However, we need to remember that it is ultimately for public bodies that are independent of Government to set out what they intend to achieve and how they will do that. I take a leadership role in that regard and, as you know, I take it very seriously, I have communicated that to a wide range of audiences and groups, both in person and in correspondence.

In engaging with the PSED, we also have to be mindful of the limits on legislative competence in such frameworks. Vuyi Stutley has gone over some of that detail and I will not repeat it, but we need to remember that, because it is a “due regard” duty, it is by its nature a procedural duty. That means that it is not outcomes focused in its form, but I am clear that the policy intention behind the PSED is substantive.

The Equality Act 2010, in which the duty sits, was intended to be transformative when it was introduced. It is a wide-ranging and on-going duty to engage in conscious consideration of the three needs, and we see that as a strength. If it required a narrower focus on identifying or achieving particular outcomes, we would see that as a limitation. It needs to be seen in the wider sense. I can go into further detail on that if you wish.

Nick Bland would like to add to what I have said.

I cannot speak on behalf of other public bodies. You would have to ask them.

Indeed.

Thank you very much, convener, and good morning to the committee. Thank you very much for the opportunity to discuss the report of your inquiry into the operation of the PSED in Scotland and my response. I also want to thank the stakeholders who gave evidence to the committee. Their insights add to the evidence about how the PSED works in practice, existing challenges and, of course, how those can be overcome. There is a lot for us to cover today and I welcome this discussion.

I am committed to a respectful, fair and diverse Scotland. The PSED and the Scotland-specific duties are important tools to achieve that goal. I am dedicated to demonstrating leadership to increase awareness of the PSED and the SSDs across the public sector. It is vital that public bodies understand and meet their obligations under the Equality Act 2010. I have championed equality and a culture of shared learning and accountability, including through engaging with ministerial colleagues and running round-table events for duty bearers and equality groups.

I seek to make the most effective use of all available powers. Notably, I used for the first time the power under regulation 11 of the Equality Act 2010 (Specific Duties) (Scotland) Regulations 2012 when I wrote to duty bearers on 16 December, requiring them to consider our new equality and human rights mainstreaming toolkit.

We must continue to make Scotland’s collective response to the PSED more effective, and on 8 December we published our proposals for PSED improvement activity until December 2029 in the regulation 12 report. That was an important step towards that goal, which demonstrates our continued commitment. The regulation 12 report sets out a range of concrete actions to enhance leadership, capability and capacity in the private sector, with a focus on sharing good practice, and it highlights fostering good relations, which was one of the key themes in the committee’s inquiry.

Alongside the regulation 12 report, we published an impressive suite of mainstreaming resources, which I am proud of. They should help further establish equality and human rights at the heart of private sector decision making and service design. The suite includes the equality and human rights mainstreaming strategy, presenting principles and drivers for change; the mainstreaming action plan, showcasing 61 actions to embed equality and human rights across Government; and the online mainstreaming toolkit, featuring a self-assessment tool and over 100 practical resources to help duty bearers evaluate and strengthen their mainstreaming efforts.

I welcome the committee report’s emphasis on fostering good relations.

We continue to experience a regression on equality, diversity and rights around the world where hate against already vulnerable groups is becoming increasingly normalised. This division and violence has no place in Scotland. Fostering good relations is crucial to a safe, respectful and inclusive Scotland and that is why the Scottish Government is taking action. We have recently invested an additional £300,000 to strengthen community cohesion, partnering with the STV children’s appeal to support grass-roots projects that bring together people across generations, cultures and faith.

Our “We are Scotland” media campaign celebrates diversity and shared values, reminding us that Scotland is stronger for the differences that shape us. In addition, we continue to directly support a wide range of community organisations through investing £7.9 million this year in crucial work relating to community cohesion to uphold rights across all protected characteristics, fight discrimination, advance equality and foster good relations, and that includes funding for interfaith dialogue and anti-racism work. We have established the Anti-Racism Observatory for Scotland, known as AROS, a national centre of excellence to tackle structural racism and promote inclusion, for which we will provide £3 million between now and December 2027.

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Embedding equality and human rights across the private sector is essential. The mainstreaming suite, our programme of PSED improvement and our work to foster good relations demonstrate our continued commitment to meaningful action and to making the most effective use of the powers that we have. We will continue to do so to make Scotland a fairer, safer and more inclusive place for everyone. Thank you, convener.