Chamber and committees

I will bring in Rachael Hamilton—your line of questioning might work here.

I thank all our panellists for their very powerful contributions. You have given us lots of food for thought at a very topical time with regard to asylum seeker and refugee status. Of course, there is also this afternoon’s debate in the chamber, and I encourage everyone to tune in and watch that. You might even hear some of your contributions being amplified in that arena. Once again, I thank you all.

That concludes our formal business this morning. I thank everyone for their support at my first meeting as convener.

Agenda item 3 is an evidence-taking session with a panel of stakeholders, whom we will hear from shortly. We are joined by Philip Arnold, head of refugee support for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, British Red Cross; Annika Joy, programme director, Simon Community Scotland; Graham O’Neill, policy manager, Scottish Refugee Council; and Andy Sirel—I hope that I have pronounced that correctly—legal director and partner, JustRight Scotland. You are all very welcome. I also refer members to papers 1 and 2.

I invite our witnesses to make some short opening remarks of perhaps a couple of minutes each. As members will wish to ask lots of questions so that we can get to the heart of the matter and carry out some deep scrutiny, brevity in any opening remarks would be appreciated.

I will start with Phil Arnold, please.

Thank you to the panel members for their opening remarks. As we proceed with our questioning, I will kick us off, and I will be followed by my colleagues, who will come in with their own lines of questioning.

Colleagues, if you wish to come in with a supplementary, please indicate that to me, and I will do my best to bring you in. I also ask colleagues to direct their question at a particular panel member to start us off. If any other panel member wishes to add further information, please indicate that to me and I will bring you in. On that note, we will crack on.

I will come to Andy Sirel first. I am interested in the legislative context of asylum in the UK and how that comes together with Scotland. It would be good for us to get a bigger picture of where we sit with regard to the UK and of the effect of that context on asylum seekers and service providers in the public, private and voluntary sectors.

Thank you very much, Maggie and everyone. I am sure that people will bear with me as I take on the role of committee convener for the first time. I also thank Joe FitzPatrick for all the work that he did and wish him well. I look forward to working with everybody.

Thank you. It was worth a try.

I am mindful of the time. We have a lot of areas to cover. What you are saying is really important, but I want to bring in my colleagues, who have questions. Are you finished, Fulton?

Will the member take an intervention?

I absolutely accept that every human being has skills to offer. We could make full use of them, as any country in the world could.

This illegal Illegal Migration Bill does not speak for Scotland, our values or our needs as a nation, as Paul Sweeney mentioned. I join colleagues today and any other day in calling for immigration to be devolved, but we all know very well the UK Government’s attitude towards devolution and devolved powers.

It is clear to me, as it should be to everyone, that the only way that Scotland can exercise its values in the world and make our nation a welcoming home to those who need it is through taking full control of our finances so that we can invest in a fast and fair system of processing applications rather than the current profit-from-people-in-peril model that is perpetuated by the UK Government.

The bill is happening now and must be stopped now. I was glad to hear from the cabinet secretary that the Scottish Government will do everything that it can to challenge the bill. It breaks many of the UK’s obligations under the ECHR and the UNHCR refugee convention. It would be more suitable if it was actually called, as I said, the illegal Illegal Migration Bill.

I make a plea directly to Scottish Conservative members to make their voice heard. They know that the bill is wrong—it is morally, legally and ethically wrong—so they should not sit there meekly and nod along to what their London bosses are doing. They should stand up to them. My challenge to Douglas Ross is to whip his MPs to vote against the bill when it comes to the House of Commons for its third and final reading. All other Tory MSPs should speak out and encourage their colleagues south of the border to put a stop to what is proposed in the bill. To do nothing is to support the bill, and Conservative members’ silence gives consent. They should send a message that the Scottish Parliament does not consent to the Illegal Migration Bill.

I proudly represent one of the most diverse constituencies in the country. Many of those who live in Glasgow Kelvin are first-generation migrants—as am I, having moved to this country from Pakistan. Our diversity is far from a weakness. It is our strength—it is part of Scotland’s rich tapestry. Scotland, like the UK in general, is an ancient migrant nation. The contribution of those who pay Scotland the ultimate compliment by choosing to call our country their home is our past, our present and our future.

However, who gets to do so is currently at the mercy of a remarkably cruel UK Government. The name of its game is keeping people out. I, for one, cannot see any reason for the UK Government’s blind resentment towards displaced, disadvantaged and desperate people. Everything that it does seeks to hammer the vulnerable, and the Illegal Migration Bill is no different. It is, in part, disguised as an attempt to thwart organised criminals who are looking to make quick and easy money from those who are desperately seeking safe sanctuary. In reality, though, it makes criminals out of those who are escaping war-torn nations. Underpinning the whole thing is an outright ban on claiming asylum in the UK. That is how serious the bill is.

Unless someone is lucky enough to be from a nation with a specific refugee scheme set up by the UK Home Office, there is no route for them to make a claim for asylum within these islands. Under the Tories’ proposals, if someone comes to the UK seeking asylum, they face being detained indefinitely and left in a permanent state of uncertainty, with the threat of being deported. In fact, included in the bill is the removal of court oversight, which gives the Home Secretary free rein to lock up people who are seeking asylum in the UK, including children. It would leave the most vulnerable people in the world detained, destitute and dying.

I remind the chamber that the provisions in the bill will empower a Home Secretary who dreams of deporting refugees to nations with a questionable record on human rights. Just last year, Rwandan police arrested, detained and charged a woman at a concert in Kigali for what they labelled as a shameful dress. The police and Government in Rwanda frequently persecute journalists who speak out. We should not be outsourcing our human rights obligations. We live under an uncaring, unfeeling and—in my opinion—increasingly extreme Government that we, in Scotland, did not vote for.

During recess, I met the Women’s Integration Network in my constituency and heard from a number of refugee women and asylum seekers who faced the many challenges of the UK’s current immigration system. The asylum process is taking far too long. Those who are appealing decisions are served eviction notices. Where do they go? Some of the people who have been served notices leave prior to that deadline. Where do they go? In my opinion, that is enforced destitution. In addition, unlike in the USA, Canada, Germany, Australia and many other nations, those who are seeking asylum in the UK are not permitted to work at any point. They have to live on £6 a day. How many of us in the chamber spent that shortly after leaving the house? It is all part of the Tory Government’s hostile environment approach to dealing with people who arrive here from elsewhere.

This morning, I convened my first meeting of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, where we heard compelling and grim evidence from the Scottish Refugee Council, JustRight Scotland, the Simon Community Scotland and refugee support at the British Red Cross, all of which deal with the grass-roots effects of such terrible bills. Their message was clear: the bill undermines the power of the Scottish Government, including our obligations towards children.