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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 July 2025
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Displaying 692 contributions

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Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Màiri McAllan

Well, the minister who took the legislation forward was a junior minister under both you and Ms Cunningham.

You are quite right that the amendment that dealt with the issue was lodged at stage 3 of that bill, so the Scottish Government was not able to undertake a business and regulatory impact assessment, for example, as we normally would. However, as I said in my opening remarks, as the minister who is now responsible I am always open to monitoring the impact of legislation and, equally, to hearing concerns about its effect.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Màiri McAllan

I accept that the normal assessment could not be undertaken because of time. I accept that point. I do not accept that the falconry community could not have been heard because—as you know—when you take legislation through as a minister, you have an open door.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Màiri McAllan

The licence is about control and protecting young timber and agricultural land. It is about conserving natural habitats. That brings me back to the point that I made at the beginning, which is that, owing to the conservation status of the mountain hare, it has been viewed by Parliament and the public as not appropriate—

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Màiri McAllan

Please let me finish the point. It is not appropriate to be taking mountain hares for sporting purposes.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Màiri McAllan

I will turn to my colleague Hugh Dignon in a second. The correction that I will make to that point is to say that not all falcons could or would take a mountain hare. Only an eagle would.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Màiri McAllan

No, that is the responsibility of the falconer.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Màiri McAllan

I will pass over to NatureScot to answer on whether that is small number of licenses, given that the legislation has been in force for only a short period.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Màiri McAllan

It depends on the context. The legislation has been in force only since March 2021 and the division of licences reflects the discussion that we had about the fact that mountain hares are far more frequently taken by shooting than by birds of prey. That is just a reflection of the state of play.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Màiri McAllan

I am not sure that that is the case. I think that they can take off in other areas of the country. Obviously, a trained falconer would know a great deal more about that than I or we do, but we say that the quarry that is being pursued is the principal factor that differentiates upland falconry from other types, although there are other variables. Stan, do you want to come in?

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Màiri McAllan

That is a policy question, to be fair. We act on the basis of advice that NatureScot gives us on the conservation status of and risk to animals, but it is for us to make the decisions. I absolutely accept that there is a marked difference in the numbers that are taken by shooting mountain hare and those that are taken through falconry. However, I come back to the core point, which is that our statutory advisers, NatureScot, are telling us, in a nature emergency, that there is a conservation risk to mountain hare. We have to be prepared to take action in the face of that. That action has to be proportionate but, equally, consistent.

Again, I acknowledge the concerns of the petitioner, and everything that the committee has said, but, equally, I ask how we could justify action that restricted people’s ability to take an animal for recreational purposes by shooting but did not apply similar conditions on those who would take it by other means. It is about consistency.

As I have said, for example, throughout the current consideration of the Hunting With Dogs (Scotland) Bill, we are grappling with those questions of consistency in all the ways that people seek to hunt with dogs in the countryside. We have to have a consistent approach.