Chamber and committees

On the point about a full-scale crisis, I emphasise what Jamie MacDougall said, which is that Historic Environment Scotland’s workforce, with its duty to maintain and support our heritage throughout the country, has continued to do that job throughout, albeit that I completely accept that there have been significant leadership and board-level problems, which are well documented and which I restate I accept were unacceptable.

Equally, in the Scottish Government, we have been clear that the gap in accountable officer, for which our sponsorship teams are responsible, ought to have been addressed sooner. That was made clear in the Audit Scotland report and in the internal HES review that Jamie spoke to.

Since coming into post, I have been concerned to make sure that we had an interim chair in Ronnie Hinds. I have been concerned to ensure that we have a process—it is under way—for recruitment of a permanent chair, that culture change skills are prominent in the advertising for and selection of the chair, and that the change of board members is done in an orderly manner. It remains my concern that an accountable officer should be in place at all times, and I will ensure that that is the case.

I am very clear about the challenges and have been working in the past few months to ensure that the structures are there so that recovery can happen.

10:45

Absolutely. I might ask Jamie MacDougall to say a bit more about what the chief medical officer has been working on, but one of the great things about this job is that, every day, you get to see examples of how people across the country are bringing culture and wellbeing together. David Green mentioned examples in his area; just the other day, I was at Dundee Contemporary Arts, hearing about a class that it has been running for 22 years now to help patients manage chronic pain.

Given that this Government is trying to support wellbeing and quality of life for everybody in our communities, I cannot thank organisations enough for providing such things with longevity and for the really relational support that they offer. That particular approach came directly from relationships with the national health service, so we are, again, talking about services working together for the benefit of the people of Scotland.

There are loads of examples of the sort of thing that you have asked about happening already, and I am very keen for public service reform to have social prescribing, cultural prescribing et cetera as part of what we all know is a really important approach to wellbeing in our communities.

I understand the concerns about the Third Eye Centre and CCA, in respect of both the building and the archive. I have been actively engaged with the issue for a while. I was seeking daily updates from Creative Scotland on it, such is my understanding of people’s concerns.

I will deal with the concerns separately. You will, I hope, have seen yesterday that we confirmed that the archive has now been purchased for the public. My intention was that it be held together and made available for the public. That was very important, and I am glad that we have achieved that, so I thank Glasgow Life and Creative Scotland for their work on that.

On the building, my objective is to see it reopened and contributing to the arts and cultural scene in the west of Scotland, as it has done for decades. For it to be used to do that, Creative Scotland has to seek expressions of interest from those who wish to lease or buy it. Creative Scotland was explicit that it is seeking expressions of interest in leasing or buying.

Creative Scotland then has to examine those expressions to see who could viably run the building while reflecting its true importance in the cultural scene. That work is ongoing. From my perspective, I want it to continue, because I want the building to be used, but what it is used for is important to me, and I have made that clear to Creative Scotland.

I think that the games sector is still a stand-alone creative industry rather than formally sitting alongside Screen Scotland. When I talked about the sectors coming together, I was referring to the new festival.

It is right that, when we make a new international screen offer to sit alongside the other Edinburgh festivals, we should bring different industries together. The screen sector festival will not just work with games; it will also work with the book festival and the art festival to demonstrate the absolute best of differing art forms.

11:15

I am also absolutely clear that the games sector is a massive success for Scotland, and it can sit and be supported in the culture portfolio just as it can in the economy portfolio. I am meeting the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport this afternoon—forgive me if that is not the time; I have had a busy morning—to talk about the interplay between our portfolios and how we need to work together. The games sector and the other creative industries will be part of that.

I am sorry for the error, Jenny.

It has always been put to me that Screen Scotland is beginning to outgrow, if it has not already outgrown, the structure of being part of another organisation. Screen Scotland feels that, in order to enable it to take decisions at the pace that is needed and move with the nimbleness that I discussed, it must be a stand-alone organisation.

It is also worth noting that the wider review of Creative Scotland has made some substantial recommendations on how Creative Scotland could improve as an organisation by moving from being a grant-giving body to being a development body. That is probably quite telling in respect of some of what Screen Scotland needs to experience as a stand-alone body.

There is going to be quite considerable change, and we—you as the committee and I as the minister—will be grappling with that in the coming years. There will be change at Creative Scotland, including a change in the focus of what it does. I think that it is quite exciting to talk about Creative Scotland as a development agency, while equally allowing Screen Scotland, as a fledgling stand-alone organisation, to fly the nest—I have used that analogy a few times—and to flourish, and, we would hope, to meet the incredibly ambitious goal that has been set for 2030.

Let me take the two parts of the question separately. Underpinning this whole answer is the fact that every public body in Scotland is part of our assessment of the landscape and has to be challenged and to challenge itself on its functions and how best it is working.

I talked previously about the sharing of estate, infrastructure and so on, and Historic Environment Scotland will have to consider its operations like anybody else. There are good examples of that already happening, which Jamie MacDougall might be able to elaborate on. Despite the well-documented problems that it has faced—I state our commitment to getting it back on a stable footing of governance—it has been undertaking public sector reform already, because there has been a shift in support from the Government versus what Historic Environment Scotland raises in revenue. The balance has been shifting for it to be more self-sufficient, and that work is ongoing.

That is an example of how public service reform is already working in HES but, in relation to structure, my priority is for HES to get itself back to the excellent levels of governance and functioning that we expect and, indeed, that the employees of HES deserve to experience every day.

Jamie, do you want to say any more?

It holds that every public body under a public service reform work programme will have to consider its functions and the extent to which it can improve its delivery for the people of Scotland, but it is also true to say that the process is about renewal, not just reduction.

There is a very clear example of that in the culture portfolio. We are going to make Screen Scotland an independent entity and take it out from Creative Scotland, where it has been. It has experienced considerable growth, and to allow it to flourish independently and reach the £1 billion of gross value added target by 2030 that we have set for it, it will become a separate and stand-alone body. That is about having an additional body, rather than making a reduction—it is a good example from culture of how public service reform is not only about reduction.

I cannot pre-empt anything that might decided with regard to the number of bodies that will come out of the process of dialogue in which we are engaged.

I appreciate that you will have particular insights into this, given the interest that you have declared, and I would extend that to other committee members who might have views, as I consider the bill and what needs to be done.

We could legislate for a requirement to recognise the value of culture or to provide it in a certain way locally, but in advance of that I can also use the multi-annual funding and the increases in funding to provide support for organisations across the country, with a large geographical spread. That is practical support that can be given now, in advance of any legislation being changed.

That said, I am conscious that local authorities feel under pressure when it comes to their cultural assets and the provision of culture. With regard to public sector reform in local government, the PFG, as you will see, talks about a three-month period of intensive dialogue on its future; that has to offer an opportunity in the culture space to work better across boundaries, share resources better and enhance the cultural offering across Scotland. However, I do not have any predetermined view on how we do that.

I am open minded on that. Our commitment deliberately does not say that a bill will be passed in this session. What is important to me is to ensure that the quality and the necessity of what comes forward will be in it, among all our other priorities in this session. As I say, I am collecting ideas. I have a preference for moving ahead with things that we can do now but, where a piece of primary legislation is absolutely required, we will be able to develop that as well. I cannot say for sure whether that bill will be passed in this session. It will depend on content and timing.