Chamber and committees

EFA means ecological focus area. There are particular plants that encourage pollinators, and there are beetle banks, hedgerows and buffer zones. Amy Geddes is working on her soil by looking at what it is currently doing and what more it could do. It is brilliant stuff. Some fantastic work is already happening, like the work that Tom Bowser is doing at Argaty.

Those things that people are already doing are the kind of things that we want other people to think about as they consider whether they could adopt a similar approach and what the outcomes would be for them. The people who are in the lead and already doing that work could probably indicate what that might mean for others, but every farm is going to be different and every farmer has to take their own personal view on what will work for them. We have had conversations here before about how each farm is different because Scotland is a diverse place, and farms are also diverse within areas.

The measures will not be prescriptive. People will be able to look at what is available and decide how it will work for them and help them to achieve what we are asking them to do.

That is what we are working on right now with the development of the whole-farm plan. I know that it is difficult because everyone is busy, but we are asking people to take a wee step back and think about what that looks like for them and how they can make it work in their operation.

I fully understand that people might not want to do that because they feel that they are doing too much already and because they have always had the single farm payment, but we have made it clear from the outset that that will not be the case and that it will not be business as usual. We are going to ask people to do more.

The process that we are in now and all the discussions that we have had today are part of that process, and we are relaying those conversations to the industry so that people absolutely get the direction of travel and know that we will be asking them to start thinking about doing those things in the longer term and working out what that looks like for them.

We are working towards making sure that that delivery will happen.

I am not saying that the system cannot deliver the four tiers; I am saying that I will write to you to clarify.

I agree that we need to make sure that that information is available. The monitor farms are a great tool. I heard a phrase in a completely different environment to this, which was that men learn shoulder to shoulder and women talk face to face. Those monitor farms give farmers the opportunity to have those conversations and pick things up and think, “Well, I could do that,” without having it being given to them or rammed down their throat. Once they start to see things happening, they think, “I could implement that at home.” From my experience, that is definitely always the best way. I have certainly learned things by meeting and speaking to other farmers and saying, “That’s a good idea—I want to try that.”

I am confident that the people who are doing the work that we require them to do will deliver it for us. We have an exceptional team of people—an awful lot of them—working behind the scenes, who are highly skilled, so I am confident that they will deliver the scheme that we require them to deliver.

Divergence will always be part of a devolved policy, and divergence is expected as a result of devolution, because each nation will seek to address its needs in the way that best suits it. The common frameworks were created as a policy-neutral way to manage divergence across the UK by agreement and collaboration between equals—I think that that was the approximate framing of that approach. Those frameworks are still provisional, but they are fully operational intergovernmental arrangements that are used by all the Governments across the UK to manage policy divergence. The agricultural support framework provides a non-legislative mechanism by which all four nations can collaborate, co-ordinate and co-operate regarding what the future policy will look like across the whole of the UK, now that we have left the EU.

However, the UK Government included agricultural support in the scope of the Subsidy Control Act 2022, which risks undermining the agricultural support framework. The act and the internal market principle in particular risk making the common frameworks process redundant. We would like that not to be the case, because it puts legislative restrictions on policy divergence within the UK, rather than managing it through mutual co-operation via the framework. We will all remember Jonnie Hall’s interpretation, which was that the internal market act

“drives a coach and horses through the principles of common frameworks”.—[Official Report, Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee, 16 December 2021; c 4.]

I hope that there will not be issues. We have a much better working relationship with the UK Government right now, so I hope that we have an approach that respects the decisions that the devolved Parliaments make on behalf of their people.

The NFU stated that, if we took an ELMS approach in Scotland and phased out direct support and things such as less-favoured area support for more disadvantaged areas, that would almost be the death knell for Scottish agriculture. What other countries are doing in their policy is entirely up to them. However, as I have just said, I hope that there is respect for the devolved settlement to allow us to continue to do what we know is right for our farmers.

We have regular interministerial group meetings, which are chaired by the relevant minister, depending on which of the four nations is hosting. I think that the next one is supposed to be in Belfast. Unfortunately, I cannot attend it. I think that it might now be held online. We regularly have such conversations. Of course there will be differences of opinion on what is happening but, as long as that does not impinge on our ability to do what we need to do here, in Scotland, that is fine.

There has been no indication that there would be any issues with regard to trade or that any barriers would be put in place in relation to anything that we are doing. I do not anticipate that that would happen. If we got word that that was to happen, that would be disappointing, to put it diplomatically.

As I am sure you are aware, the Government is very supportive of integrating trees on farms. We know about the benefits that trees provide, which include shelter and shade. They also help us to tackle the climate change issues that we have talked about. The integrating trees network supports farmers and crofters across Scotland to develop their knowledge and understanding of planting and managing trees on their land. In recognition of those efforts, the network received the Chartered Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management’s 2024 best practice knowledge sharing award.

There is a lot of information out there to help farmers to integrate trees on their land. I regularly tweet about programmes on farms that are designed to look at what people are doing. That goes back to the point that I made earlier: farmers talking to one another peer to peer is probably the best way of disseminating information. I regularly see such initiatives by the integrating trees network, and I will put information about them on social media to let people know that they are happening.

We would absolutely encourage farmers to take up agroforestry, and there is help there for those who want to do so.