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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 January 2026
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Displaying 2667 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Jim Fairlie

Professor Werritty, coming back to the point that you made, the discussion has focused very narrowly on licensing grouse moors, and clearly your report goes much wider than that. I think that you considered at some point the power to impose fines on grouse moor managers in the same way as the Scottish Environment Protection Agency would have the ability to impose fines. Was that in addition to licensing or was it a separate thing? Are they two different things, or did you think that both of them would work together?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Jim Fairlie

You have definitely added more questions than answers, that is for sure.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Jim Fairlie

Can I put one further example that has been put to me? As a former sheep farmer, I may have had the desire to shoot a white-tailed eagle because it was lifting lambs. I would be fined and possibly imprisoned, and I would face the full force of the law, whatever that happened to be, but I would not be stopped from farming sheep. If I am a grouse moor manager and I do something and the licence is removed, I am effectively stopped from carrying out my way of making a living. Would that issue fall under the ECHR?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Jim Fairlie

Yes. Professor Werritty, are you aware of any concerns that have been raised by stakeholders that the provisions in the bill on licensing may not be compliant with the ECHR, for example, due the potential of disproportionate interference with property rights?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Jim Fairlie

Let us presume that the hoops are dead easy, you just apply for the licence and you get it. I think that you were suggesting that a heavy-handed NatureScot person could impose certain restrictions. At what point does that breach ECHR?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Jim Fairlie

Correct me if I am wrong—I may be misinterpreting or misunderstanding you—but, if you were going to fine somebody because they had done something on the grouse moor or on the land that would be subject to a fine, you would need a burden of proof to do that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Jim Fairlie

Mike Flynn has already answered my question, thank you.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Jim Fairlie

Could you explain what you mean by “poorly despatched”?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Jim Fairlie

Professor Reid, I want to come back to what you said about licensing and the figure for peat depth, whether it be 30cm, 40cm, 50cm or whatever. Among the current weaknesses of the muirburn code are that few of its provisions incur penalties and there is no robust system of monitoring and compliance. Given that we are now about to put something else in place, does the bill provide solutions to the issue of compliance? Are there robust enough penalties to ensure that that happens?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Jim Fairlie

To clarify, you are saying that the use of a break-back trap would take much longer than if you set up a barrier with a glue trap and a rat comes over the top of it. However, you more or less know the behaviour of a rat. I get that there will be some resistance to it, but is there not a method that you can use with a break-back trap that will catch the rat? I am trying to think of the behaviour of the rat and why it is coming out in the first place. It will come out for a particular reason, and not because you drive it out. Therefore, if it will be done quickly, somebody has to be on site to alleviate the problems that Libby Anderson has talked about. If you were using break-back traps, would you not just use more of them and make sure that they were baited appropriately?