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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 October 2025
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Displaying 3681 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I will bring in Sharon Dowey in a moment, but I want to ask about the recruitment and retention information that is helpfully set out in your annual report. Of course, none of the work that you do could happen without the quality and experience of your staff body. I note that on page 31 of your report, you make reference to the fact that the budget is set each year by the Scottish Government, that you are under the same pressures with regard to things like public sector pay rises as other bodies are, and that you had to submit a business case to

“request additional funding for staff costs on a recurring basis and temporary funding for legal fees.”

Although the report says that you have a low staff turnover, which is really good, it also says that there will be retirals in the coming year. Can you say more about your priorities with regard to retaining an experienced and skilled staff body under the constraints that you face?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

We wish you well in whatever comes next for you. Thank you again for coming along today.

We move into private session.

11:09 Meeting continued in private until 11:55.  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I am sure that the benefits of body-worn video that you mentioned, and perhaps those of other digital transformation aspects, will come up in members’ questions.

That brings me on to looking forward. During our scrutiny of the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill, we discussed the PIRC’s capacity, and we took evidence from you on that. What capacity and resourcing factors for the PIRC need to be considered for next year and beyond?

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

If you want to provide a follow-up answer in writing, that would be helpful.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you—we managed to get that question in.

I am looking through the door and I do not think that the cabinet secretary is outside yet, so I will shamelessly insert a final question. [Laughter.] It is on a point that is made in the Social Work Scotland submission on the basic issue of the police being able to make contact with services. I direct this question to David Hamilton—you may need to take it away, David. Do police officers have available to them the core access that local arrangements should be supporting?

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Okay—great. That is the final word. I thank you all for what has been an excellent session. We could probably have run on for another hour.

We will have a short suspension to allow a changeover of witnesses.

11:27 Meeting suspended.  

 

 

11:33 On resuming—  

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

One of the things that was highlighted in the paper on safe spaces was the need for peer support, which the cabinet secretary referred to, as well as the need to work alongside clinical staff. The clinical aspect of overall care is important.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

That is helpful to know.

I will stop there and bring in members, starting with Liam Kerr.

Criminal Justice Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

A very good morning, and welcome to the first meeting in 2025 of the Criminal Justice Committee. Happy new year to everyone. We have no apologies this morning.

Our first item of business is a decision on whether to take in private agenda item 3, under which we will review the evidence that we hear under item 2. Do members agree to take item 3 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Our main item of business is an evidence session on the continuing challenges that are faced by Police Scotland officers and staff in responding to people in distress. I welcome our first panel of witnesses. I am pleased that we are joined by Dr Inga Heyman, associate professor, Edinburgh Napier University; Assistant Chief Constable Catriona Paton and Chief Superintendent Matt Paden, Police Scotland; Dr Robby Steel, consultant liaison psychiatrist, NHS Scotland; and Dr David Hamilton, mental health manager at the state hospital. What a fantastic panel. Thank you all for giving up your time—we know that you are busy. We also appreciate the submissions that some of you were able to provide ahead of the meeting.

I refer members to papers 1 and 2, and I thank—in addition to our witnesses—all the organisations that have provided us with written evidence. I intend to allow up to 75 minutes or so for this session. To get us started, I will open with a very general question. We will start with Dr Heyman, and we will then work our way across the panel.

The policing response to people in distress is an issue that the committee has been interested in for much of this parliamentary session. What are your initial thoughts on the progress that has been made in that area of policing generally? In addition, from your respective perspectives, what are the key priorities that need to be considered in further developing a multisectoral or whole-system approach that enables officers and staff to transfer the care of a person to a more appropriate service?